Husband has concerns over Covid vaccine

[serenity777]

Hi all,

After much back and forth, my husband is finally on board to give our almost 9 month old daughter the pfizer covid vaccine. However, he is still sending me studies on myocarditis and has deep concerns with respect to the spike protein and exposure to it through the vaccine.

From my understanding, this is his thinking: the more she is exposed to the spike protein, the more she is at risk to develop damage to the heart. He does not think the vaccine is very effective, so he thinks she would eventually get covid anyway and that the vaccine would just expose her even more to the damage the spike protein causes.

I’d like help sorting through these studies and also make him feel more secure in our decision to vaccinate our daughter. My knowledge on biology is pretty limited, so I would appreciate this community’s insight on these studies. I mainly have the pdfs of them, and I don’t see how I can upload them to this post, so I’m going to list the titles and journals of the studies.

Thank you so much in advance.

“Cardiovascular Manifestation of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine in Adolescents.” Tropical Medicine and Infectious Disease. 19 August 2022.

“A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of the Association Between SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination and Myocarditis or Pericarditis.” American Journal of Preventive Medicine.

“Autopsy‐based histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti‐SARS‐CoV‐2‐vaccination.” Clinical Research in Cardiology

https://doi.org/10.1007/s00392-022-02129-5

“Adverse effects of COVID-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them.” Virology Journal (2022) 19:100

https://doi.org/10.1186/s12985-022-01831-0

 

[keji]

@serenity777 Some 15 billion doses have been administered. If people still have a problem with, I don't have the energy to argue anymore.

There are no hidden secrets.

As for myocarditis... Whatever risk there is, it is always lower than catching covid. (which can also give you myocarditis, just at a higher rate than the vaccine)

 

[coertzenjfs]

@keji This exactly- Cardiology NP but not your cardiology NP. Young and and middle aged men are the primary group getting myocarditis from the vaccine. Its mild and treated with NSAIDS and resolves without residual. Even my patients who have had this complication are still recommending to get vaccinated.

The risk of myocarditis is lower from the vaccine than it is with getting unvaccinated covid. We will all have covid- its just a question of whether you want mild covid or risk severe and long covid. My kids are vaccinated bc long covid in a child is a loooong time and who wants their kid to have fatigue or shortness of breath during the most active years of their life?

 

[serenity777]

@coertzenjfs Thank you!!

 

[serenity777]

@keji I completely understand your frustration and believe me, I've had it too. We actually temporarily separated during my pregnancy because of something else, but I refused to come back until he got his second covid shot. I was hesitant to post in this community, because I'm sure most people feel this way and just don't want to constantly prove the safety and efficacy of the covid vaccine anymore.

However, I got past my hesitancy to post because my marriage and the father of my child being reassured he's doing the right thing are very important to me; as is the health of my child - which I would give her the vaccine regardless of his position, but I would prefer for him to be in support of it.

I also posted because I am curious what the community thought of the studies and I'm just not in a position to thoughtfully critique them. I've already received some great responses and I'm thankful for that.

Lastly, I just want to point out that very few parents are getting their infants vaccinated against covid and I think the scientific and medical community need to have a better approach than to just think, "fuck you" (not that you're saying that) to address the concerns of people like my husband. Otherwise, I think vaccine hesitancy of all vaccines is just going to continue to rise.

 

[keji]

@serenity777 I hear you, I get it.

But yeah, the summary is, the vaccine is always safer than the disease and you can't dodge covid forever. You have to change the framing from "is the vaccine safe?" to "is it safer than the disease?". Nothing you put into your body that usually doesn't go there is safe. 3'000 people die every year from Aspirin.

And there is this thing that the side effects of vaccines tend to be the same than you get from the actual disease. Something similar happened with the swine flu vaccine, where people would get nacrolepsy, causing huge outrage. It wasn't safe. However, nacrolepsy is something you also get from swine flu, just much much more commonly.

And it's not "fuck you". I am not in medicine, but for me it's more "We told you this for 2 years now. By now I am sure you made your choice, no more point in arguing. The pandemic is over, so it's really all on you now."

 

[serenity777]

@keji Thank you. Yes, we've had that discussion about the side effects and that the infection causes a much worse reaction than the vaccine side effects and I think he gets that now.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say that was your or anyone else's attitude. We were together almost 7 years before we married during covid lockdown and we did so with the intention of having children. That was before the vaccine came out and before the whole turmoil of 2020 - 2022 apparently broke a lot of people's brains.

I've said repeatedly that had I known this would be an issue, I wouldn't have married him or had children with him. He got the first covid shot before I got pregnant, so I thought we were all good. It's been very difficult to navigate this and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I do appreciate your response and for engaging with me!!

 

[keji]

@serenity777 I don't know what other issues bubbled up along with the vaccine skepticism. (Which, honestly is warranted until you get enough information to make a sound decision)

I do really appreciate that my wife and I are on the same page with these thing. But just to say, we all have our quirks and it would be rather boring to be married to someone exactly like you.

If it's just that (and not full on qanon or whatever), I wouldn't be too hard on him. From what I gather he is doing the right thing here in the end.

 

[serenity777]

@keji I really, really appreciate that. And yes, fortunately he didn't go that far and fortunately he stopped spending all his time on the outskirts of the internet. He's a brilliant person, but once you get down a rabbit hole it can be hard to get out of.

Evidence-based marriage counseling really helped us during the separation and I don't think we could've gotten on the same page now without it.

 

[keji]

@serenity777 Oh yeah, I am guilty as well. There was a couple of weeks in 2009 or so, after watching "Zeitgeist" where I had some wild ideas. Thankfully I came back. But it makes me appreciate how easy it is to fall for the right wing rage trap.

Glad you turned the corner. I think a lot of what binds you is the time but also the work you put into the relationship.

 

[serenity777]

@keji Oh I remember the zeitgeist era! I really think the isolation, chaos and confusion during the pandemic lock downs got to him. We had just moved to a different state with no family and friends right before the pandemic hit. Then his job went remote and I lost my job.

We've since moved back and have our family and friends around and we've been able to get back to reality (and not spending all day online getting angry at everything).

He still thinks Joe Rogan is a douchebag, so that's why I never gave up on him, lol.

 

[keji]

@serenity777

He still thinks Joe Rogan is a douchebag,

That's a very good indicator, lol. And yeah, who would have thought that anger can be such a drug?

 

[luvdreamsnjesus]

@serenity777 Have you spoken to your pediatrician regarding your husband's concerns regarding the vaccine, including showing your doctor the PDFs your husband referenced?

Many pediatricians have office hours to talk about things like the efficacy of vaccines (all vaccines not just covid), milestones, development etc.

They should be your best, most trusted ally in this issue.

 

[serenity777]

@luvdreamsnjesus I told him he should address his concerns to our pediatrician, but we ended up switching pediatricians right before her 6 month well child visit. I expected her to get her covid shot during that visit, but it wasn't offered at their clinic anymore. He didn't bring up any concerns during that visit, so I thought he was over it until I told him I scheduled her vaccine at the county health department. I think he has a distrust of the medical establishment, but not necessarily of medical research, which is part of the reason why I posted here - to address these specific studies.

But, yes, our new pediatric office does offer these kinds of consultations and I'll talk to him about it again.

Thank you!

 

[joanfiz]

@luvdreamsnjesus Good luck with that one. Our (generally very pro-vax) pediatrician's "helpful advice" to my husband on vaccines for our kids was that he was more concerned about getting our kids swimming lessons to prevent accidental drowning.

 

[serenity777]

@joanfiz Ugh! I had a similar experience with a nurse during my pregnancy when I was trying to explain to my husband he still needed to get his second shot. She told him her husband thought it was all a conspiracy. After that, I switched providers!

 

[luvdreamsnjesus]

@joanfiz That's odd, i'm sorry that's been your experience.

Our pediatrician always takes the time listen and consult on our concerns. She's always very thoughtful and caring.

 

[snervel]

@serenity777 This is what I would say in this situation:

It is true that children are at lower risk of dying from Covid than older people. However, a small minority of children do die (I believe there have been more than 1,000 since the start of the pandemic in the US -- needs factchecking but it's around there.) A vaccine would prevent that.

We are beginning to learn that Covid infections have long term side effects on our health. Increased heart disease, diabetes, Long Covid, neurological probems, etc. Studies show that vaccination reduces chances of developing those issues.

Myocarditis is far more likely from a Covid infection than the vaccine.

If we assume that Covid isn't going anywhere, and most people will likely be infected (if they haven't already), we should arm our immune systems with the best armor they can get to fight it off, including for kids.

Good luck!

 

[serenity777]

@snervel Thank you! This has been my line of thought and I think my husband does understand this reasoning.

 

[peccavi44]

@serenity777 1) Post vaccine myocarditis is not an issue in young children. It was not seen in children younger than in the teenage years.

2) Also, the highest risk is in males aged 16-24 years of age. There seems to be a risk with the way the immune system reacts to spike protein in the presence of testosterone.

3) The risk of myocarditis does not increase with increasing exposure to spike protein. It usually happens after the first or second dose.

4) The vaccines are still effective at preventing serious illness and seem to be protective against the development of MIS-C. They decreased that risk by 90%.

5) If your husband is afraid of the 3-10 micrograms of spike protein exposure from the vaccine then why isn’t he afraid of the larger dose exposure and billions of viruses in natural illness. Once infected a person can produce a hundred to a million times more spike protein than any vaccine.

6) Priming one’s immune system to recognize spike protein via vaccination is insurance for the future when the virus comes around.

7) As children get older and enter young adulthood, the risk of myocarditis from MIS-C or directly from the virus increases. Vaccination decreases those risks. COVID-19 is here to stay.

Hope this helps you!