@follow_the_word The thing about recommendations is they have to be used for everyone. Take safe sleep recommendations. A lot of times parents that use/abuse alcohol and drugs compound the other factors. But we can’t look at parents and decide “you might be using/abusing substances so you have to follow these recommendations” we have to apply them across the board everywhere and with everyone. With alcohol in pregnancy - some might be safe but since some people can’t handle that limitation we say none. I think a lot of it actually helps providers not have to use their judgement (which can be clouded by bias, subconscious racism or whatever else) and just apply the recommendations to everyone. This is where Emily oster fits in. She’s telling people where the holes in the recommendations are. The group of people who made the recommendation know those holes, but chose their rules for a reason; they fit the most people the most amount of the time. Emily oster is giving a decision free, guidlelines are saying people need rules and can’t handle a decision tree. You have to decide where you fall in that spectrum.
@follow_the_word I really enjoyed this. We also lied through our teeth about where baby slept. We both worked full time and had a terrible sleeper who was fundamentally un-sleep-trainable. I’ll never forget trying to explain our set up to a “first best or nothing” person…we followed safe sleep 7, no swaddles, no alcohol or medications of any kind, and used a snuzza monitor, all while continuing to work on bassinet/crib sleep. I explained that without this, I was profoundly concerned about passing out with baby on the couch, or falling down the stairs, or falling asleep at the wheel.
The helpful advice was that, in her experience, you could sit on the floor in the middle of the room to make sure you didn’t fall asleep while nursing baby. No word on what I was supposed to do about the stairs, my job, or my mental health.
@krae991 Same lol. I would’ve simply passed out on the floor. I saw someone comment on a thread saying they just “made themselves stay awake.” Oh okay. Great. Very helpful.
@krae991 Yeah that middle of the floor suggestion is for someone with Sleep Deprivation Lite and no back problems. And who doesn’t see the urgency of keeping mental health and employment together as a parent
@alivebydeath Right? Like, if we're at the point of falling asleep while driving, sitting in a slightly uncomfortable position isn't going to do a thing
@krae991 Exactly. I didn't have to co-sleep with my first, bc his night sleep was pretty good. But I had read and gotten my room ready for the safe sleep 7 just in case after talking with some of my friends who swore that it saved them during the fourth trimester and made them safer parents.
Last night, with my second, I woke up and started feeding him at 11:30 and then, somehow, I woke up sitting in the chair over an hour later with him on my shoulder in burping condition. I don't remember anything after starting to feed him. Scared the shit out of me. Obviously the bassinet is not working for us this time around, and I'm too sleep deprived with the safest sleep option setup. So I'm starting "safer" cosleeping tonight, because having him in a firm bed with me that has no bedding and has otherwise been made as safe as possible per the safe sleep 7 may not be as safe as a bassinet, but it's definitely safer than accidentally cosleeping in a padded recliner or getting in a car accident when I'm driving the kids somewhere.
@krae991 Same. Scared the hell out of me. I'd rather have it planned in a more controlled environment than on accident in a much more dangerous environment.
@pulickalbrothers Ahhh these people drive me crazy. (The useless advice givers)
I did fall asleep behind the wheel (thankfully at a stoplight). I also dropped my baby on the couch (thankfully she was fine). I started doing some crazy things to keep myself awake. Holding ice. Blasting loud music in headphones. Staring into one of those anti-SAD light machines at 2AM. If I wasn't breastfeeding, I probably would have given myself a heart attack with caffeine. I eventually hit auditory hallucinations and suicidal ideation before I cracked and put the baby in the bed (and got meds for the obvious PPD).
Every time I hear about those women who get postpartum psychosis, I wonder how they were sleeping. I wonder how close I came.
"Best" as an absolute is fine when that best is easy to obtain. "It's best to change diapers regularly" is an obvious statement that is not difficult to comply with. But the absolutism about ABC, when it is known a significant percentage of babies won't sleep like that, just leaves desperate new mothers to the wolves.
But also, they didn't explicitly say cosleeping; they just mentioned the safe sleep 7, which is the 7 things La Leche League says is research based to make cosleeping safe. So it was easy to miss if you didn't catch the reference.
@follow_the_word I love this, thank you for sharing. I'm a previous public health nurse and really struggled with my employer's very strict approach to a lot of teaching. I was reprimanded for offering harm reduction strategies to families who simply didn't have the resources to adhere to some recommendations. I personally have felt like I couldn't be open with providers about my own children- "yes of course she sleeps in her bassinet at all times" while cosleeping . I agree with her about providing second best options because recommendations don't always align with real life behaviors. Nobody would have ever slept if I didn't cosleep with my first. And on the opposite spectrum my second absolutely preferred his own space (although I did not always place on his back because he had extreme gas- again something I never admitted to anyone except close friends). We have to start working with parents and meeting them where they are at because harm reduction is effective, but we can't discuss options when we're not having honest conversations. Not to mention so many new parents think they're doing something wrong because no one else is honest. How many posts have you seen where parents ask for tips on getting their kids to sleep independently at 2 weeks old. They think this somehow happening for the majority of families when it's really not.
