@shalomhandiworkgifts A lot of pediatricians will blow this research off because it’s so old. He hasn’t done anything new in a while.
What do you tell your pediatrician about sleep?
- Thread starter yoshinat0r
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shalomhandiworkgifts
New member
@wren84 I don’t want to give away a lot of medical information about him because I’m not sure how much he has publicly shared, but he hasn’t been able to continue with any research for personal reasons. I’m pretty sure he retired years ago.
The research is still sound, and a lot of other biological anthropologists have furthered his research. I can look today and find some links.
It still is relevant and groundbreaking, though. It would be like citing bowlby or ainsworth and saying their findings are old. Of course they are, but they laid the foundation for what we know about attachment theory today.
The research is still sound, and a lot of other biological anthropologists have furthered his research. I can look today and find some links.
It still is relevant and groundbreaking, though. It would be like citing bowlby or ainsworth and saying their findings are old. Of course they are, but they laid the foundation for what we know about attachment theory today.
@shalomhandiworkgifts I absolutely agree I’m just saying a close minded pediatrician will blow it off entirely.
shalomhandiworkgifts
New member
@wren84 Completely.
My first pediatrician was like this and it was awful. If someone is in an area where there aren’t a lot of options for pediatricians, I would probably say to keep all information private. They don’t need to know. I just always found it stressful to not be open, though.
I use Dr. Jay Gordon now (remotely) and absolutely love him, but there aren’t a lot of doctors like him…. and most don’t take insurance.
Our system needs a paradigm shift.
My first pediatrician was like this and it was awful. If someone is in an area where there aren’t a lot of options for pediatricians, I would probably say to keep all information private. They don’t need to know. I just always found it stressful to not be open, though.
I use Dr. Jay Gordon now (remotely) and absolutely love him, but there aren’t a lot of doctors like him…. and most don’t take insurance.
Our system needs a paradigm shift.
@shalomhandiworkgifts That’s most people. It’s the 1% of society who can pay for out of pocket for health care. I do think the most sound advice is to keep it to yourself because we’ve even heard of some of these pediatricians reporting to cps for bedsharing. I know that’s extreme but you never know if your care provider is a dick or not unfortunately.
I know for fact sharing research with a pediatrician usually is not received well either. Unfortunate but true.
I know for fact sharing research with a pediatrician usually is not received well either. Unfortunate but true.
shalomhandiworkgifts
New member
@wren84 Yeah, I completely agree with you.
It is a hot button issue for me. It is something that I have spoken out about for years. Nothing ever seems to change, unfortunately.
I would love to crowdsource ideas on forums like this to try to figure out how to implement changes to benefit parents.
I am in the position where I have time, money, and media access to dedicate to helping solve the problem (and it truly is a huge issue). I’m just at a loss of how to create meaningful change at this point.
As a society we are so child-centered, and anti-mother. The schism creates social pathology that needs to be addressed. We put most of the pressure on women, but then do not support them in helping parent their children well.
Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox, it just is an issue that breaks my heart. We need to be caring about parents more.
It is a hot button issue for me. It is something that I have spoken out about for years. Nothing ever seems to change, unfortunately.
I would love to crowdsource ideas on forums like this to try to figure out how to implement changes to benefit parents.
I am in the position where I have time, money, and media access to dedicate to helping solve the problem (and it truly is a huge issue). I’m just at a loss of how to create meaningful change at this point.
As a society we are so child-centered, and anti-mother. The schism creates social pathology that needs to be addressed. We put most of the pressure on women, but then do not support them in helping parent their children well.
Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox, it just is an issue that breaks my heart. We need to be caring about parents more.
@shalomhandiworkgifts Funding more research that contests SIDS being caused by bedsharing is probably the best bet. Dr McKennas work is great, but it isn’t comparable to the volume for research that’s published for “safe sleep”. Which is ridiculous for sure, but the reality is the science isn’t fully there yet to be advocating for bed sharing in America.
Then you have bigger issues at hand such as the fact that the vast majority of homes will never ever ever have the chance to be single income households which is a big piece of why we’re child centered and anti-mother. Then, that comes down to the fact that our culture is earn earn earn not family family family. We’re individualistic, we will never be collectivist. I think it’s going to come down to that culture difference that makes it so challenging.
Then you have bigger issues at hand such as the fact that the vast majority of homes will never ever ever have the chance to be single income households which is a big piece of why we’re child centered and anti-mother. Then, that comes down to the fact that our culture is earn earn earn not family family family. We’re individualistic, we will never be collectivist. I think it’s going to come down to that culture difference that makes it so challenging.
yoshinat0r
New member
@shalomhandiworkgifts You sound really cool! I’d support you if you started anything
@yoshinat0r I was honest with mine and they were just like "Okay. Obviously we recommend he be in his own space but just be safe." All the nurses admitted to doing it and that it's super common. We're the only country that acts like biology and thousands of years of people doing this is wrong.
@yoshinat0r I answered the questions. When the pediatrician started giving advice I just said that I was ok with how things were. I do find the unsolicited sleep advice strange and it wasn’t something I was prepared for. At my baby’s 2
month visit the Dr told me to stop holding my baby and letting him nap on me and I literally laughed at her.
month visit the Dr told me to stop holding my baby and letting him nap on me and I literally laughed at her.
@yoshinat0r The truth, our pediatrician is really great. Recommended by our midwife. I think if we had hunted for our own pediatrician it wouldn’t have turned out to be as good of a fit.
knowmeyouwont
New member
@yoshinat0r I lied up until she was like 9 months then admitted to “sometimes” letting go her sleep with me, they didn’t seem to care.
Then by the 12 m appointment I was honest about it but when I said she still nurses throughout the night they started giving me crap. I genuinely did not think that counted as “waking up” bc she literally is sleeping the entire time she nurses. Like.. she makes a little whine, I give her the boob, all good, and that happens like 4-5 times throughout the night. Well apparently that does NOT constitute as “sleeping THROUGH the night” and therefore I am doing something wrong?
I don’t care what the pediatrician or the nurses have to say about sleep anymore, I’m doing my best and she’s content so that’s good enough for me.
Then by the 12 m appointment I was honest about it but when I said she still nurses throughout the night they started giving me crap. I genuinely did not think that counted as “waking up” bc she literally is sleeping the entire time she nurses. Like.. she makes a little whine, I give her the boob, all good, and that happens like 4-5 times throughout the night. Well apparently that does NOT constitute as “sleeping THROUGH the night” and therefore I am doing something wrong?
I don’t care what the pediatrician or the nurses have to say about sleep anymore, I’m doing my best and she’s content so that’s good enough for me.
yoshinat0r
New member
@knowmeyouwont Yes this is exactly what I meant. I’m not worried about them asking IF we cosleep…but I have to write down the number of wakes each dr. visit, so it doesn’t give me any room for explanation. I kinda just want to avoid all of it and write a lower number than what is reality. It also makes me second guess everything I’m doing and then I feel obligated to quick research it all. IS it actually bad they’re waking up 4-6 times a night to nurse???
It literally makes me second guess everything, since they’re the professionals..
It literally makes me second guess everything, since they’re the professionals..
daddysgyrl
New member
@yoshinat0r I feel this! I hate that traditional medicine makes me doubt myself so often. As soon as I get to a place of feeling aligned with what’s biologically normal, I start to spin when I hear a statement like “babies should be sleeping through the night by X age”. I wish everyone would be more honest…they’re sleeping through the night because they were sleep trained. Or they have a magical unicorn baby.
knowmeyouwont
New member
@yoshinat0r There’s a lot of research out there for either side so yeah I know what you mean, it’s hard to decide what’s best, and like.. who are we to question the advice of medical professionals. It really is a hard decision to make because there’s pros and cons to both sleep training and cosleeping.
According to some medical professionals we shouldn’t be nursing our babies to sleep past a certain age because it’s bad for their teeth. I’ve also heard that cosleeping actually causes more frequent wake ups because they can smell the milk.
In the beginning for me it was really about survival.. cosleeping isn’t always comfortable but it’s better than sleep deprivation (for the whole family) from frequent wake ups and rocking to sleep until your legs feel like they’re going to give out. Tbh I was also in this state of mind where I felt like she needed to nurses as much as possible in order for me to feel like a good mom. I know that sounds crazy.. and she never had an issue with her I weight.. but in my mind I was giving her what she needed. Then once we got to the 6 month mark where people start talking about sleep training I just couldn’t do it.. it didn’t feel right and went against my instincts.
Now that she’s almost 15 months and still nursing throughout the night and cosleeping I still wonder if I did the right things. But my friend with a baby the same exact age who also breastfed but sleep trained from 6 months is telling me that they’ve recently resorted to cosleeping bc her son’s sleep has gotten so bad.
So what I’m saying is.. their sleep patterns are not linear, they fluctuate no matter what method you choose. So let yourself off the hook and try not to feel like the world is on your shoulders with this one. There’s only so much we can control with their sleep anyway
According to some medical professionals we shouldn’t be nursing our babies to sleep past a certain age because it’s bad for their teeth. I’ve also heard that cosleeping actually causes more frequent wake ups because they can smell the milk.
In the beginning for me it was really about survival.. cosleeping isn’t always comfortable but it’s better than sleep deprivation (for the whole family) from frequent wake ups and rocking to sleep until your legs feel like they’re going to give out. Tbh I was also in this state of mind where I felt like she needed to nurses as much as possible in order for me to feel like a good mom. I know that sounds crazy.. and she never had an issue with her I weight.. but in my mind I was giving her what she needed. Then once we got to the 6 month mark where people start talking about sleep training I just couldn’t do it.. it didn’t feel right and went against my instincts.
Now that she’s almost 15 months and still nursing throughout the night and cosleeping I still wonder if I did the right things. But my friend with a baby the same exact age who also breastfed but sleep trained from 6 months is telling me that they’ve recently resorted to cosleeping bc her son’s sleep has gotten so bad.
So what I’m saying is.. their sleep patterns are not linear, they fluctuate no matter what method you choose. So let yourself off the hook and try not to feel like the world is on your shoulders with this one. There’s only so much we can control with their sleep anyway
@yoshinat0r The truth. They’re doctors, not gods. End the stigma.
@yoshinat0r I’m honest. The nurse always asks where he sleeps, I say with me on our floor bed and she goes “ok!”
There’s a note on his chart that always says “discussed safe sleep” but they never have really said anything about it
There’s a note on his chart that always says “discussed safe sleep” but they never have really said anything about it
@yoshinat0r I told my ped the truth. We bedshare and he wakes up still every 2-2.5 hrs to eat. LO is 4 months old. She told me about the risks of cosleeping and then went onto the next topic. Most peds now know that we’re going to do what we want/feel is right regardless of how many times they tell us the risks
krogerdude1
New member
@yoshinat0r The truth. We recently switched from an MD to an ND. The MD was neutral about it and the ND actually told me that I should be proud of my nurture-based parenting and for refusing to sleep train.