People who “diagnose” themselves with fertility issues before they even start trying

[s3anreilly]

@raymond723 I was saying subfertility is used in the medical sense meaning the exact same thing as infertility.. It's not some infertility-light. It's just try different names for the same thing - medically speaking.
Infertility still also does not mean someone can't conceive without intervention. For example people with unexplained infertility have a pretty decent chance to conceive unassisted in the second year of trying. But other diagnosis often too, but chances vary. There are very few diagnosis the render people sterile.
About PCOS yes, but like I said anovulation is a valid concern to see a doctor early. But it's a very common diagnosis with a very wide spectrum which the car majority does not experience infertility

 

[kuzipj]

@s3anreilly I have never heard anyone, medical professional or not, claim that “subfertility” and “infertility” are synonymous. I’m open to being wrong but even after looking into it (because I use the term subfertility because even though it’s been a year and a half I don’t have an official infertility diagnosis. and don’t want to be using a term incorrectly) I don’t see any evidence of this. The consensus I’m seeing of subfertility seems to be a possibility of conceiving naturally but it’s taking longer than average or there are conditions that make it more difficult. Which anovulatory pcos at 10 months is definitely true.

 

[s3anreilly]

@kuzipj but with more than a year of trying you already have an infertility diagnosis? Infertility does not mean sterile either? For example unexplained infertility has a 40% to conceive unassisted within the second year of trying.

There is no real consensus on the terms either. Like I said some regions the national guidelines prefer one term over another. Here they prefer subfertile, because they think infertile would sound like sterile, which it isn't.

For example here: http://www.medfer.cl/uploads/2/3/1/4/23144434/guia\_holandesa.pdf

 

[kuzipj]

@s3anreilly RE didn’t give me an infertility diagnosis but opted for RPL and an ovulatory disorder instead . I think it’s just worth noting that there are maybe some regional differences. But in most places subfertility and infertility are not considered congruous. So it’s not fair to lecture people on something that is not true where they are from. All infertility is subfertility. But for everyone all subfertility is not infertility. If people are trying to post over in IF that’s one thing. But that’s not the case here.

 

[s3anreilly]

@kuzipj that's why in my initial comment I already said this was regional.

 

[raymond723]

@s3anreilly Then please be mindful that Reddit has a primarily American audience and for many Americans, they could be considered subfertile depending on their medical history, their TTC journey, and their doctor.

 

[s3anreilly]

@raymond723 Reddit is only 50% (49,3% to be exact) from the US *shrug* But yeah, there are many american's that's why from the beginning I said regional... Being a bit less US-centered minded has never done anybody harm.

 

[kuzipj]

@s3anreilly You said it was regional but then lectured someone for using it correctly for where they live. Which doesn’t sound like you actually recognizing it is regional. They are not used interchangeably in the medical field or socially here.

This clearly isn’t a productive conversation though, or on topic to the original post. I know everyone here wishes the best for everyone stuck in the TTC drag.

 

[raymond723]

@s3anreilly If you acknowledge there is no real consensus on the terms, why are you adamantly stating subfertile and infertile are interchangeable and nobody with a medical condition that can impact their fertility + over 6 months of TTC can label themselves as subfertile? You are gate-keeping the term subfertility and by doing so, accidentally invalidating the struggles other women are going through. I could understand you being so adamant about this if I wandered into r/Infertility talking about this scenario, but I didn’t.

Additionally, I understand you’ve been trying for a long time and your partner suffers from MFI, but my inability to ovulate on my own and my 10 months of being unsuccessful at conceiving don’t leave me in the average fertility zone either (you even acknowledged that being anovulatory signals the need for doctor intervention). People in my predicament aren’t yet infertile, that is correct, and I have stated several times I don’t call myself as such. Heck, my original post was all about acknowledging how damaging it can be to say you’re infertile when you aren’t. But subfertility, depending on the source and the doctor, I could pass for. And so can others experiencing a similar situation. I am not seeing an RE for nothing and there is no “appropriating” occurring here.

I read your source, but there are researchers with contradicting opinions on the matter. Here’s an academic source stating subfertility and infertility aren’t the same: https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/20/5/1144/2356853

And here’s one from the many articles you’ll find from a quick Google search also supporting that notion: https://www.healthline.com/health/subfertility

As previously stated, as much as it’s inappropriate to call yourself infertile when you’re not, it’s also inappropriate to police somebody’s fertility struggles if you are not their doctor.

 

[s3anreilly]

@raymond723 Look from the beginning I said that this was depending on region and I was just pointing out that they can be used to mean the same thing: trying >12 years. I already posted a guideline. Here's another one using subfertile (btw they use both terms interchangeable):

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg156/evidence/full-guideline-pdf-188539453

NICE guidelines are THE guidelines here in Europe.

This Cochrane review uses the term too:

https://www.cochrane.org/CD001838/MENSTR_intra-uterine-insemination-unexplained-subfertility

and in the medical field Cochrane reviews are THE source

I think the most inclusive term is fertility problems.

Like I said they are often used interchangible

 

[raymond723]

@s3anreilly You finding the most inclusive term as “fertility problems” is your prerogative. Since not all subfertility is infertility and I can be classified as subfertile in my region (sources already provided), you cannot determine whether it’s okay for me to refer to myself as such or not. That is my decision and my doctor’s.

 

[raymond723]

@s3anreilly I never said majority of women with PCOS experience infertility nor was I taking about every woman with PCOS. I was talking about MY experience with PCOS. And my experience with PCOS has impacted my fertility. So I don’t really know what your point was on that.

The same goes with arguing about terms you consider interchangeable when again, I was talking about what I feel comfortable calling myself, as an individual undergoing fertility treatments.

 

[s3anreilly]

@raymond723 But these are actual medical terms. You can't just appropriate them because you feel good about them? Our official diagnosis is "male subfertility" (and more specifically serve OAT) in other regions they would call it MFI. We actually needed to go straight to IVF because we fall in the official "subfertile" category, which is defined by trying a year without success and my husband's diagnosis.

 

[raymond723]

@s3anreilly I already said I didn’t call myself by either term yet and that I’m approaching the one year mark unless I conceive within two months, I’m anovulatory, and I’m in treatment. Again, what are you getting at?

“I made it pretty clear I didn’t feel comfortable labeling myself infertile or subfertile - just the closest I could be okay with is subfertile. Neither are something I call myself yet.”

EDIT: https://www.healthline.com/health/subfertility

https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/20/5/1144/2356853

 

[s3anreilly]

@raymond723 that second source is defining infertility as sterility, which is really not the consensus

 

[raymond723]

@s3anreilly The second source states, “Infertility is the inability to conceive naturally after one year of trying.” And “In infertility, the likelihood of conceiving without medical intervention is unlikely.” That is not the same as saying infertile = sterile.

 

[s3anreilly]

@raymond723 It literally says: "Infertility may be used synonymously with sterility"

 

[serjio]

@manitouscott HEAR HEAR.

You hit the nail on the head about fertility being this personal achievement. It’s not. Stop.

 

[mariet9]

@manitouscott What I fail to understand is people who show-off or act all smug about getting pregnant first month.

It's total coincidence you moron, you didn't do anything to earn it.

 

[katrina2017]

@manitouscott Yes to this. I've spoken to two people exactly like this. How can you say you have fertility issues before you've even had any tests? It makes no sense. It just makes me think they are trying to create drama around the conception and eventual pregnancy. It a club nobody wants to join in reality and many people who find out they have infertility issues don't know until many moons after they start trying.