My Girlfriend’s 12 y/o Is Out of Control and Threatening to Kill Herself!

[petermushk]

My girlfriend has two twelve year old daughters (twins). The first one (we will call Kylie) is sweet as pie, takes her responsibilities seriously and her punishments even more seriously. The other one (we will call Kaia), however, is the complete opposite. She is extremely manipulative, lies all the time, steals all the time, and will half-ass her punishments unless I watch her the whole time. Recently, Kaia discovered her way out of punishments is to just threaten to kill herself and has been hospitalized twice in the last two weeks. Her psychiatrist just put her on stimulants (for her ADD) for the first time in response, and her therapist recommended that we add a reward to the end of her punishments. Even though it felt stupid, I tried this new strategy. But just like a hundred strategies before, things seemed to be going well until they weren’t. When Kaia’s mom told me that she might be a sociopath, I thought she was exaggerating. But I really think it might be true. Kaia will use any means at her disposal to get what she wants: lie, cheat, steal, threaten suicide. The school (which is practically like a daycare) is no help; she steals from them all the time, and there are no consequences. The hospital she stayed at probably felt like a vacation to her (she told me they watched movies and did arts and crafts). Her mom is at her wit’s end, and I’m sick of it.

If anyone has been through something similar and come out the other end, I’d love to hear your advice.

 

[marlott]

@petermushk First suggestion I have is therapy, likely family therapy given your situation. There’s a lot to unpack here and it would best be done with a professional.

The difference in the twins’ behavior and your attitude towards them stick out like a sore thumb. Kylie is clearly the beloved golden child and Kaia seems like she might be rivaling her for attention. Just based on this post, it seems like Kaia gets the most attention when she’s acting out.
Have you or her mom tried spending quality time with her or praising her for the good things she does? Also, are you her father figure or just mom’s bf in her eyes? That can play a huge role too.

It sounds like a really frustrating situation and I’m sorry you’re going through it, but try to remember that she’s a kid, a hormonal preteen to boot, and people can grow and change. A little love goes a long way, best of luck, and I hope you find the help you need!

ETA: If you really truly suspect a major psychological condition like sociopathy, get her scheduled for a proper psychiatric evaluation. Better not to make assumptions that might make things worse for all of you without knowing for sure

 

[petermushk]

@marlott Thank you, very helpful. To answer your questions…I am just the boyfriend, but she does respond better to male role models (according to her mother, and we’ve never had an incident while I’m there). And you are right, Kylie is the golden child in her mother’s eyes. That’s why I try to relate and take an interest in Kaia as much as I can. But I can kind of understand, ya know, day in, day out having a problem child, why her mother isn’t quite as patient and understanding anymore. As for the family therapy, I highly recommended that, but Kaia told her therapist that she “isn’t ready.” It feels like she will never be ready so long as it’s her decision.

How do you go about getting a clinical diagnosis like that? She has a psychiatrist, but she only sees her once a month for 15 minutes: “how are the meds? Ok, see you next month.” She’s supposed to see them each for an hour.

 

[hbc]

@petermushk You cannot get any diagnosis of any personality disorders before age 18. No exceptions. You can get other diagnoses, but I would suggest not to. Research shows worse outcome if you do get them.

Could you do some sort of reward system? She collects points for doing things well, and once she has a certain amount, she gets to do something she wants? Please note that it will only work if the points cannot be taken away, and they are only for things she could actually manage. Like doing the dishes.

 

[petermushk]

@hbc This was before my time, but my girlfriend said that she tried a prize box system before for properly doing her homework and chores. She said it did not help her behavior at all. But I will still explore the idea again.

I’ve heard of intensive in- or out-patient facilities that do six weeks of deep psychological work for kids that have problems like Kaia’s. But we’d have to wait for her to turn 13. Have you ever heard of these places?

 

[hbc]

@petermushk No, I live in Sweden where things are handled differently.

Rewards systems can be done really well. Or they can be just another way to break a kid. If they is behave, the worst thing should always just be that they don’t get points. Bad behaviour can be addressed in different ways, but never as a part of a rewards system.

 

[waywardson]

@petermushk Do not send this girl off to a behavioral camp. You have not been in these girls lives long enough to even suggest sending this girl off for exposure therapy. She needs her mother. She is lashing out for attention because she’s 12, her behaviors are normal for a 12 yr old going through puberty and experiencing stress. She is also a twin and you admit her sister is the golden child so she is being neglected. If you start talking about sending her away for treatment your issues are going to spiral. Those facilities are historically known for being abusive towards children. Look up what happened to Paris Hilton. If you start talking about this, this child who is already feeling neglected is going to be given the message that she is unwanted. Why else would she threaten to kill her self?

OP I’m telling you this as a mother, stepmother, mental health advocate, and I was a victim of child abuse; give this child what she needs which is love, understanding, kindness and patience. She needs her mother. If her father is alive and not abusive then she needs her father as well. If you truly want to do what’s best for this girl and your GF then you will act as an advocate to ensure these things happen and you’ll provide her mother with the support she needs to do so. Be a team player not the team captain. If your gf doesn’t have patience for her daughter then she needs therapy more than her daughter, I would also consider letting her live with her father if he’s able to provide her with a stable life. The path you are trying to take is a dangerous one.

Like I stated in another comment; you can have her diagnosed at the ER even for mental health reasons. I do not feel that a diagnosis will help, it can be used as a crutch or against her later. Neither of which help her grow. All 3 of them need to be in therapy, if this therapist is transactional then find another one. I went through many before we found one that worked for us.

 

[shyamolishah1]

@waywardson behavior camps aren't residential treatment homes, which is sounds like OP was referring to. Her claims of wanting to attempt suicide need to be taken seriously.

 

[godstruth]

@petermushk So you mean like trouble teen behavior camps, or do you mean inpatient in a residential psych facility connected to/with a real hospital? Because these are two different things.

Troubled teen camps are abusive as fuck and you should steer clear.

My 21 year old has done multiple stints in residential treatment at hospitals. He doesn’t have the same issues your girlfriend’s kid does…he doesn’t lie or steal and he is pretty good at following rules. His issues are self harm, including one very nearly successful suicide attempt that required a life flight to children’s hospital and a pretty long stay in the PICU, at 14. So it’s definitely a completely different situation, but we’ve had success with them. He actually asked to go the last time. He has also been hospitalized in regular, acute care, psych/behavioral departments more times than I could count, for 3 days to 3 weeks at a time, usually for med changes, and that works a bit, not as well as 1-2.5 months in residential does though. The time between hospitalizations is much much shorter with short stays than with long stays. We are averaging a 1 hospitalization every 15ish months now, which is a huge improvement, but it took years of intensive therapy and being in and out of hospitals to get to this point. 14-19 years old were really really hard. 19-21 has been much better.

 

[petermushk]

@godstruth Ya, I was definitely referring to a hospital setting, not a camp.

 

[godstruth]

Do you mean like troubled teen behavior camps, or do you mean inpatient in a residential psych facility connected to/with a real hospital? Because these are two different things.

Troubled teen camps are abusive as fuck and you should steer clear.

My 21 year old has done multiple stints in residential treatment at hospitals. He doesn’t have the same issues your girlfriend’s kid does…he doesn’t lie or steal and he is pretty good at following rules. His issues are self harm, including one very nearly successful suicide attempt that required a life flight to children’s hospital and a pretty long stay in the PICU, at 14. So it’s definitely a completely different situation, but we’ve had success with them. He actually asked to go the last time. He has also been hospitalized in regular, acute care, psych/behavioral departments more times than I could count, for 3 days to 3 weeks at a time, usually for med changes, and that works a bit, not as well as 1-2.5 months in residential does though. The time between hospitalizations is much much shorter with short stays than with long stays. We are averaging a 1 hospitalization every 15ish months now, which is a huge improvement, but it took years of intensive therapy and being in and out of hospitals to get to this point. 14-19 years old were really really hard. 19-21 has been much better.

Edit- our children’s hospital (children’s hospital Colorado) has treatment programs for kids under 13. I think cedar springs, and maybe Denver health, both also in Colorado, has residential for kids under 13. These things definitely exist. In our experience, going to residential requires a regular psych admission than the doctor overseeing care in that hospital has to be the one to request the transfer to a residential treatment program. You can’t just admit your kid directly to residential yourself.

 

[livingstonlakshmanan]

@petermushk What are you doing to punish them?

I doubt the kid is a sociopath, this whole situation sounds suspect.

Maybe she’s happier at the hospital because she’s not being continually "punished" whilst suicidal.

 

[petermushk]

@livingstonlakshmanan I would put the quotes around “suicidal.” We still treat it as real, but with everything I’ve seen (without going into detail) I would almost guarantee she is using it as a manipulation tool.

 

[crandaddy]

@petermushk Even if she doesn't actually want to die you need to consider that she finds certain things so overwhelming that she'd rather tell she wants to die than deal with the task at hand. If it's manipulation you need to consider why she feels the need to go to that extreme. Is that the only way she can get you to acknowledge she's struggling?

 

[petermushk]

@crandaddy That is possible. I run that around my mind every time she has a major incident. However, just based on everything I’ve seen, and the fact that she will use manipulative tools even for the tiniest things/wants/inconveniences…I don’t think that’s the case.

 

[livingstonlakshmanan]

@petermushk You are clearly not treating it as real as evidenced by the way you speak about this child who is not even yours.

There is a reason why she feels suicidal, you should be spending all of your time getting to the bottom of that and why she prefers to be in hospital over at home with her Mum.

It’s clear there’s a golden child here.

What are the "punishments" and what are you "punishing"?

Honestly the offer to put "suicidal” in quotation marks and jumping to believing she is using this as a manipulation tool, doesn’t make your argument sound any better.

 

[godshurtchild11]

@livingstonlakshmanan He said he punishes her by not allowing food and makes her wash the walls

 

[livingstonlakshmanan]

@godshurtchild11 I saw that, absolutely messed up. Is her name Cinderella!?!

 

[petermushk]

@livingstonlakshmanan We made a safely plan, put locks on the chemicals, stored everything that could be used to harm her, checked her into the hospital twice, let her call the hotline, spoke with the doctors and counselors, followed their suggestions. In what other ways do you suggest treating it seriously?

And yes, you’re right, she does want to get away from mom. She’s the only person that won’t let her do what she wants to do whenever she wants.

 

[waywardson]

@petermushk Well first, you should absolutely take her threats seriously. Second, you are not married and it sounds like you are just entering into this situation. You should NOT be providing ANY Judgement, discipline or punishments in your role until you are a stable trusted person to these children. Your one and only role is to provide support to their mother by backing her decisions without your input and supporting her vital role. You need to be a silent support until you learn who these children are if you plan to be a permanent positive figure in their lives. If this child is not listening to you, then it’s because she doesn’t trust you. You can’t force trust especially if you’ve already broken it which I’m getting the impression you have.

You can support your GF by allowing her to meet the needs of her daughter by allowing them to spend one on one time together without interruption. They also need therapy together without you, FYI, arts and crafts at an inpatient facility is a form of therapy it’s very effective. Her daughter is crying out and your GF isn’t giving her what she needs when she calls her a sociopath. And I guarantee the therapist you spoke with wants you to find ways to NOT punish these children and instead use positive reinforcement with rewards. Which leads me to my main question. What are these punishments?

The last and most important part is that these children are different people. One is neurodivergent, you cannot treat them the same way and expect the same outcomes. Children are individuals and need to have their needs met on an individual level. As you and your girlfriend move forward through this, set your anger and frustration aside and find your empathy and compassion. Find your understanding and patience, you CAN gentle parent tweens/teens and that’s exactly what this girl needs. Good luck OP. Let your GF take the lead and just support these girls as they process, it’s very clear this is only a part of what these girls have been through and I feel like there’s way more going on than what you posted here.