katrina2017
New member
@cjegan2014 Good for you! Love to hear it
Struggling with ST culture
- Thread starter riseup
- Start date
sunflowers24
New member
@cjegan2014 I think I'm going to start this, honestly, it's how I feel, I don't need go be a safe place for harmonious conversation abou ST tbh.
cjegan2014
New member
@sunflowers24 Agreed!
margaretjankowski
New member
@margaretjankowski And I think it’s probably a minority who ST because they have to. I think most, anecdotally, do so out of convenience. It truly makes me wonder why people have children if they don’t want to nurture them both day and night.
margaretjankowski
New member
helovesweedmore
New member
@riseup It's so sad that people expect their babies to get on their schedule rather than follow the babies' needs.
I'm in Australia also, but thankfully in the area I'm from, I've got quite a few mothers around me who cosleep and choose to breastfeed extendedly so I never heard much talk about sleep training.
I'm in Australia also, but thankfully in the area I'm from, I've got quite a few mothers around me who cosleep and choose to breastfeed extendedly so I never heard much talk about sleep training.
@riseup I’m not from Aus but this is how I see it: personally, I don’t believe in ST for my family. I agree with you about all of the drawbacks of ST. I personally believe that it’s in my child’s best interest & best for her development to respond to her needs as soon as possible. And we have been able to do that so far while obviously sacrificing my sleep and my husband’s sleep sometimes.
However, there are some families that simply don’t have that choice. I can’t know the toll it takes on a person to have a child with colic or one who refuses to sleep for days because I haven’t experienced it. I think ideally these families would LOVE to be just like you and always respond to their child’s every need immediately. But when the parent’s mental health is so so so drained they can become dangerous to their kids unfortunately. They can be come irritable, become more susceptible to severe anger or psychosis, or they could cause an accident due to severe sleep deprivation and fatigue.
However, there are some families that simply don’t have that choice. I can’t know the toll it takes on a person to have a child with colic or one who refuses to sleep for days because I haven’t experienced it. I think ideally these families would LOVE to be just like you and always respond to their child’s every need immediately. But when the parent’s mental health is so so so drained they can become dangerous to their kids unfortunately. They can be come irritable, become more susceptible to severe anger or psychosis, or they could cause an accident due to severe sleep deprivation and fatigue.
squirrel123
New member
@gusbus I agree with you. I remember a mom saying sleep training saved her life because she was suicidal from the lack of sleep. She had no help at night and baby was waking every hour for months on end. She was on several meds for anxiety and depression and was able to stop all meds after ST because she finally was able to get some sleep at night. I mean, how can I judge this mom?
@squirrel123 I do not judge the mom, I judge the society that provides so little support to families that a baby has to suffer for their parent to stay alive.
Pretending that the baby didn't suffer doesn't help us acknowledge that societal failing or work to fix it.
Pretending that the baby didn't suffer doesn't help us acknowledge that societal failing or work to fix it.
@gusbus This is a really good summary. Thank you for sharing. I agree with you. I do hope, at their core, that people do want to respond.
I think my heartache and frustrations come about from people who turn a blind eye to the facts, have the family support, two parents, finances, time, health, stamina (you get my point) to respond - but choose not to out of the convenience for themselves. That they will only parent in the day and not over night. It makes me truly question their love for their children, and I’m being honest as I just can’t help but feel that way. I just cannot fathom how someone can ignore a child who is hysterical or vomiting from crying.
I think my heartache and frustrations come about from people who turn a blind eye to the facts, have the family support, two parents, finances, time, health, stamina (you get my point) to respond - but choose not to out of the convenience for themselves. That they will only parent in the day and not over night. It makes me truly question their love for their children, and I’m being honest as I just can’t help but feel that way. I just cannot fathom how someone can ignore a child who is hysterical or vomiting from crying.
dallastexan
New member
@riseup I know someone like this who also has a full time nanny on top of being a SAHM. Mega loaded. She asked if I had sleep trained mine yet and I said no it’s not for me. She said “oh I was like Hitler with mine”… I was a bit stunned that this is so normalised. I’m shocked that the science isn’t making its way into government because i feel that attending to babies is a long term way of thinking to help lessen the worlds long term societal problems.
Maybe I’m setting* too much store in the long term effects of CIO but I’m sure it can be linked to so much of our mental health woes as a nation / western culture.
Edit for spelling
Maybe I’m setting* too much store in the long term effects of CIO but I’m sure it can be linked to so much of our mental health woes as a nation / western culture.
Edit for spelling
@dallastexan It’s so hard isn’t it. And the topic of it not filtrating into government is such a huge topic that it deserves a thread of its own.
There isn’t direct studies to show if there is or isn’t harm with sleep training (which many parents cling to, to justify why they do it). But the reason is it would be unethical. It wouldn’t pass ethics. Plus anything that touches on long term results is parental reported results - which would have bias.
Governments run sleep schools here in Aus. In a nutshell, I think it’s because it helps with productivity. It gets women and men back in work. But it’s probably also because of old methods never getting an update.
There isn’t direct studies to show if there is or isn’t harm with sleep training (which many parents cling to, to justify why they do it). But the reason is it would be unethical. It wouldn’t pass ethics. Plus anything that touches on long term results is parental reported results - which would have bias.
Governments run sleep schools here in Aus. In a nutshell, I think it’s because it helps with productivity. It gets women and men back in work. But it’s probably also because of old methods never getting an update.
dallastexan
New member
sunflowers24
New member
@dallastexan 100% how I feel. Also WOAH at the lady you mentioned. I feel this way about my sister - such a stable set of resources, several adults available to hold infant to sleep, though they still choose CIO, and not even a ST system, proving the ignorance of the method in the first place. Like, with no research just data from online memes or communities typically, and with inconsistency, just crying it out for naps bc blahblahblah. It's what OP is feeling compassion for I think, the families that don't research and also identify with their intrusive thoughts as a family.
I agree with OP and I agree with you. Such uhg.
I agree with OP and I agree with you. Such uhg.
dallastexan
New member
joeparis123
New member
And I have a lot of friends with kids. 
@joeparis123 I didn't know anyone who didn't do some level of sleep training until my sister had a baby. Mine is almost 3 and has always been a terrible sleeper. The amount of times I've heard, "You just need to let her cry and figure it out" is very frustrating. We ended up cosleeping when she was 8 months out of desperation and still do. She wakes up a few times a night still and just gently rubs my face to soothe herself back to sleep. Whenever she does it, I feel so reassured I've done the right thing by not sleep training.