Opinions from childless friends

[christiangirl115]

I've seen it here and elsewhere a few times, comments that childless people should keep their opinions to themselves about what parents are doing.

I'd just like to toss out my two cents...

It takes a village, and that INCLUDES the childless friends. Just because someone doesn't have children, that doesn't mean they haven't done research or have experience for you to draw on.

My best friend is childless and she is my greatest source of parenting information. One thing particularly helpful is she can say "Well I know one parent who is dealing with that by doing X while another parent is doing Y, and based on the nature of your child I'd suggest Z."

As parents, we can be very defensive of our choices -- both when talking to childless people and other parents, which can inadvertently shield us from alternative options. But what childless friends can do is essentially compile the experience of all the parents they know and filter it to help with your kiddo.

Plus I really don't have time to research all I want to, but I send her an issue and my thoughts and she'll send relevant articles and helpful advice.

I know not all childless people are like this (and I'm extremely lucky to have her), but I just wanted to suggest we don't always immediately discount their opinions simply because we don't have the same lived experience.

 

[travisw918]

@christiangirl115 Your friend is giving is solicited advice. For me, the problem is unsolicited advice from literally anyone. (Sometimes i feel like an asshole for being defensive or feeling some kind of way, but there it is.)

 

[dukemichael93]

@travisw918 I think this is it for me. Advice from someone who knows you well is one thing. It’s judgement from anyone (with or without kids) where I get a bit defensive or defend my choices. Advice can be considered and discarded if it doesn’t work for you and your family. But when it comes with a side of judgement, I will shut it down quick. Or when judgemental advice comes with making someone doubt themselves and that they are doing the best for their family, it doesn’t feel helpful, it feels hurtful.

 

[katrina2017]

@travisw918 And it’s often not even presented as advice, in my experience. It’s usually black and white to the people offering up their unsolicited thoughts and comments.

 

[ericatn]

@travisw918 Exactly this! I have childless friends who are awesome because they listen to me when I need to vent, and give helpful suggestions. Those people aren't the ones that need to shut their face.

The friend's girlfriend who informed me that not having another child will doom my son to becoming a spoiled asshole man baby? Or the one that told me that people worth kids shouldn't be whining, kids are easy compared to a dog? Those are the ones we can't stand.

 

[jimmy8506]

@christiangirl115 I think the motto no children no option is mostly based on ignorant childless people who give unrealistic unsolicited and bizarre advice. Your friend seems lovely helpful and reasonable however there will be things that she won't be able to relate to without experiencing it.

 

[azlan7]

@christiangirl115 Many people know what to do, but when it comes to actually doing it, emotions, energy levels and environmental factors all play a part in our behaviours.

Probably everyone could recite how to live healthily: exercise, eat well, get sleep. Do the majority of people do all that perfectly? No.

It depends on whether you want someone to give book facts or if you want to hear from someone who had a real life experience. Even if they are a parent themselves, you have to take it with a grain of salt as their kid could be completely different to yours.

Not sure where I’m going with this, but maybe the moral of the story is listen to all, but at the end of the day don’t feel bad if something doesn’t work for you and your family.

 

[necronomic]

@christiangirl115 Agh I’m so divided on this one. I took a few cognitive (neuro)science classes at the Uni specifically around early childhood development (language, cognitive, sensorimotor). I am also a parent now for 4 years. No one else in these classes, including the professor, had children. Now you might call these people experts and take advice from them, and yes, it will be valid of course and based on research. But everyone spoke about kids devoid of the experience of raising them, and it showed. A lot of the “best” recommended is hardly obtainable in a real-world setting, following months of intense sleep deprivation, worry, isolation, not having a minute for yourself etc. It made me understand how research might often be done by people who cannot picture actual life with kids (and how the caretaker feels during that) and it definitely felt like that mattered a lot. Specifically in the discussions we had. So again, super divided when it comes to this. I must say that depending on what we are taking about, it will matter more or less to me if one has kids. It will be more often yes than not.

Edit: I enrolled in October 2020 so I was already a parent for a while when taking these classes last and this year. Now focusing on another part of the graduate program.

 

[kimberly3421]

@christiangirl115 I totally agree! I was a nanny for many years and in some ways had more childcare experience than some of my friends with infants. I didn’t poke my nose into things, but if they asked I’d gladly share from my experience. Of course now that I’m a mom I laugh sometimes that I thought I knew what it was like, but I still had some tricks up my sleeve!

 

[stronglady]

@kimberly3421 We were so lucky to have an au pair the first two years. She knew our son as well as we did and we often brainstormed how to approach things, I respected her opinion even if I may override it. It made it easier that my own mom had died years ago.

 

[michaelprinzo]

@christiangirl115 Oh, I think you’re talking about one of my comments.

I have found that parents know what they don’t know, and their advice is caveated by the knowledge that something worked for their kid but might not be universal. People who have never been parents tend to be way too confident in their opinions.

 

[katrina2017]

@christiangirl115 A childless friend wanted my two year old to touch an electric fence so he could learn the hard way.

Pass.

 

[sapiens]

@katrina2017 I live in an area with a lot of farm land. The answer is actually to hold a blade of grass to the fence. It takes 99% of the sting out of it. Definitely try it first before exposing your 2 yo to it.

 

[christian6969]

@christiangirl115 It's solicited vs. unsolicited. Also, I'm way more inclined to listen to a childless friend's advice if they caveat it with (and are aware enough to say) 'I know I haven't lived this, but....'

 

[bobbiessusu]

@christiangirl115 Before I was a parent and I would criticize outright bad parenting I would say “I may not be a pilot but if I see a plane in a tree I know someone fucked up.” Lol
I don’t think childless friends giving advice or even criticizing outright bad behavior is necessarily wrong but I do think there are some things childless people eat their words about when they actually have a kid. Both sides are kinda right. Parents sometimes can’t see what they’re doing wrong/possible solutions because they’re in so deep and blinded by unconditional love so they need a childless person to tell them what’s up and bring them down to earth. But at the same time there are just some things you simply won’t understand unless you’re a parent yourself.

 

[mikejackie]

@christiangirl115 Besides the point made that solicited advice differs from unsolicited in the major way that we requested it, which puts the responsibility and choice on us — we can’t justifiably complain about someone answering asked questions — i think the reason people often talk about terrible advice from childless people is that they typically are the ones who offer the most completely impractical advice.

Like “You don’t have to secure/baby proof anything … just don’t let the toddler touch anything that’s fragile/dangerous.” It takes minutes for a toddler to drown in an unprotected swimming pool (or even a bucket). Better to have a fence than to know you cannot lose track for a minute or they die. I seldom hear anyone who’s ever spent time being responsible for little ones say something like “you just need to watch them all the time.”

Or course some childless people would have good advice. Not least because not having one’s own child doesn’t mean one hasn’t dealt with children before, but, for example, I have a childless brother and uncle who both have good ideas, but they also don’t dump unsolicited advice. (my brother once dropped the gem that the best way to share a table with a toddler was to sit next to them so you don’t have to watch them eat. Freaking brilliant.)

I am astounded sometimes that we find people who we know raised their own children more or less successfully who still do offer some really stupid advice, so having children definitely is no guarantee of good advice. The advice subs about in-laws prove that.

DEATH thinks the feline overlords of course have the best ideas…like taking more naps

 

[stronglady]

@mikejackie My toddler likes to sit on my lap to eat (my food). Wonder if sitting next to him might help…

 

[tshembi]

@christiangirl115 I learned today that every child needs their individual parenting book written about them I swear. That being said, the only good advice I got was from my childless friend.

 

[paulgilldrums]

@christiangirl115 I have a sister like your friend, and another sister who usually gives advice coming from a super judgy, snotty, ignorant, obnoxiously childfree space. When I talk about ignoring comments from childfree people, it’s the second sister I have in mind. I should caveat it

 

[martinej]

@christiangirl115 We are the first of our older friends, and our familial generation, to have a child. We are also the types of people who actively do not appreciate unsolicited advice.

I am not saying these friends and family can't be helpful. They have more energy to run around, be silly, maybe run a distraction, but ultimately they also know that if there is a meltdown, they don't have to deal with it if we are also around.

I would treat any advice, articles, etc, the same way I would treat advice from my parents (who have not had a toddler in 30 years). Thanks for that, I'll take a look.

Maybe I'll read it or listen and get something out of it. Maybe I won't. If they push the issue, I just say, "Thanks but that isn't how we are parenting". I am less likely to want to listen to anyone who is insistent on any issue that they don't have intimate or professional experience in, and when it comes to parenting, that includes the childless and the parents/guardians of children who are not my child. I will happily listen to the teachers at daycare regarding potty training strategy, because they are both experienced professionals and they know my child, for example.

Honestly, the worst is my Dad, who has lots of opinions about how we live our lives. And I have made it clear to my Mom that if he keeps wanting to have upsetting conversations, than we will see less of them, which means they will see less of their singular grandchild and subsequently of us. No issues with the in-laws because my husband made it pretty clear when he moved across the country for college how much he cared.

Thankfully our friends are pretty chill and don't push the envelope. It is lovely when our childless friends come to visit and can give us a short reprieve from being a playmate on a weekend, especially in pandemic times with a 2 year old. Especially because if he cries or is poopy, they can hand him right back to us, and we handle it.