@fromissouri It probably starts with providing a competitive wage for childcare workers, no?
Just my critique of that day care Medium article that is always circulating this sub as it relates to nannies and familial care
- Thread starter dkeefe
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- just a rant parenting science
@fromissouri You can see US state ratios here.
Mississippi has the lowest infant childcare cost in the US ($5436) and a ratio of 5:1. Only Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, and New Mexico allow 6:1.
Massachusetts has the highest childcare costs in the US ($21k per year for an infant pre-pandemic) and also has the lowest ratios in the US (3:1 or 7:2). Prices at my local Massachusetts daycare have gone up over 50% versus pre-pandemic, so that average is definitely low.
I can’t imagine the lack of infant attention for a ratio of 8:1!
I can’t imagine the cost in a country with 2:1!
Mississippi has the lowest infant childcare cost in the US ($5436) and a ratio of 5:1. Only Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, and New Mexico allow 6:1.
Massachusetts has the highest childcare costs in the US ($21k per year for an infant pre-pandemic) and also has the lowest ratios in the US (3:1 or 7:2). Prices at my local Massachusetts daycare have gone up over 50% versus pre-pandemic, so that average is definitely low.
I can’t imagine the lack of infant attention for a ratio of 8:1!
I can’t imagine the cost in a country with 2:1!
joint_praise
New member
@joint_praise That sucks! Lots of childcare locations closed during the pandemic, increasing the number and size of childcare deserts.
I heard that people who moved out of metro areas during the pandemic are now finding it extra hard to get childcare in more rural areas.
I heard that people who moved out of metro areas during the pandemic are now finding it extra hard to get childcare in more rural areas.
joint_praise
New member
@deseret We had one in town close bringing our 4 options down to 3, with only one full time option. 2 year waitlist for that one though. It’s been so frustrating! I’m soooo looking forward to when my 3.5 year old starts kindergarten in 2025.
One of our preschool teachers is having a baby later this month and she’s taking a year off because she can’t line up any kind of childcare. She’s looked and there’s just no solution so they’ll probably make an exception for her baby’s age the next year to attend so she can come back. Her family member is the director so I hope they can work that out if she wants.
One of our preschool teachers is having a baby later this month and she’s taking a year off because she can’t line up any kind of childcare. She’s looked and there’s just no solution so they’ll probably make an exception for her baby’s age the next year to attend so she can come back. Her family member is the director so I hope they can work that out if she wants.
@fromissouri Belgium checking in, it's 1 adult per 9 infants here
oceansmile
New member
@dkeefe I see this article being thrown around a lot. My two biggest issues with it are
- the citations may be peer reviewed but medium is not and neither are the conclusion the author is drawing
- The article makes out like the only indicators for children's behaviour is what age they went to childcare, which it obviously is not
katrina2017
New member
@oceansmile There's also a number of very easy errors in there. The one that comes to mind is saying that playing with others doesn't happen until three.
It's a milestone at three, meaning that 75% or more have achieved it by then. And how do you learn something? By seeing it and practicing it.
It's a milestone at three, meaning that 75% or more have achieved it by then. And how do you learn something? By seeing it and practicing it.
prissymissy
New member
@dkeefe I am a parent who uses my own parent (my mom) for full time childcare. Here’s my take on my situation FWIW to anyone else:
I have a completely ideal set up. My mom is a former elementary special educator. When my daughter was born in 2020, my mom was wanting to retire anyway due to pandemic stressors. All this said, I feel that my mom provides great care and education to my daughter.
It becomes challenging, though. My daughter is an only child. My mom and I work so hard to get socialization for her. From my side, I now have to factor in the cost of activities in addition to my base childcare costs. My daughter is used to running the show since she spends a lot of time one on one with an adult. We’re trying to break that, but it is what it is in some cases. Also, with daycare I feel like you know what to expect. You know the curriculum, the schedule, the naps, some even provide meals or snacks. With my arrangement, I have to be sure to communicate with my mom and get us on the same page.
All this is to say, in my situation it works because my mom and I (and my husband) put in a lot of effort. I don’t imagine this is the norm, even in cases where grandparents are available and willing to provide childcare.
I have a completely ideal set up. My mom is a former elementary special educator. When my daughter was born in 2020, my mom was wanting to retire anyway due to pandemic stressors. All this said, I feel that my mom provides great care and education to my daughter.
It becomes challenging, though. My daughter is an only child. My mom and I work so hard to get socialization for her. From my side, I now have to factor in the cost of activities in addition to my base childcare costs. My daughter is used to running the show since she spends a lot of time one on one with an adult. We’re trying to break that, but it is what it is in some cases. Also, with daycare I feel like you know what to expect. You know the curriculum, the schedule, the naps, some even provide meals or snacks. With my arrangement, I have to be sure to communicate with my mom and get us on the same page.
All this is to say, in my situation it works because my mom and I (and my husband) put in a lot of effort. I don’t imagine this is the norm, even in cases where grandparents are available and willing to provide childcare.
rossnagellovesjesus
New member
@prissymissy Totally agree with your assessment. Dang, elementary special educator is pretty much the perfect history for that hahaha! Grandparent care (when done properly, imo) is an extension of parental care, not a separate thing entirely. Also I feel like "grandparent care" would have so many variables it would be a hard one to peg down for use in a study. Usually, people who get into childcare professions have some training, or at least generally like children. But some grandparents were abusive parents who are then left in charge of their grandchildren haha so it would be hard to draw a scientific conclusion about nannies vs grandparents without some pretty strict (and maybe impossible) controls in place.
I know the point OP is trying to make the point about nannies and addressing the inadequacy of the study so I'm not refuting any of that, but just adding that grandparent care would vary so wildly as to be a weird metric to use at all.
Personally, I have a great relationship with my mom and she does part time childcare for me as she's not yet retired. I'm well-acquainted with her flaws and comfortable with those around my child. I would never ever ever leave my baby alone with his other grandma for the day. A study using our child would get completely different results depending on which grandma they used.
I know the point OP is trying to make the point about nannies and addressing the inadequacy of the study so I'm not refuting any of that, but just adding that grandparent care would vary so wildly as to be a weird metric to use at all.
Personally, I have a great relationship with my mom and she does part time childcare for me as she's not yet retired. I'm well-acquainted with her flaws and comfortable with those around my child. I would never ever ever leave my baby alone with his other grandma for the day. A study using our child would get completely different results depending on which grandma they used.
prissymissy
New member
@rossnagellovesjesus Agreed. I think group care has so many benefits. It’s unfair and inaccurate for an author to glaze over those. I can see it by knowing what my child is missing in her world.
recycledapathy
New member
@dkeefe I see posts on this sub about the good and bad (mostly bad aspects) of daycare. It does feel very stressful and depressing. Like many other areas of parenting we try so hard to study such as breastfeeding, co sleeping, discipline and screen time the data will lean in one direction but it’s never the whole story and your family isn’t a statistic. I think that this sub can be helpful for understanding the data behind the recommendations but I’d hesitate to make decisions based off, for example, this medium article alone. I just hope that folks can look at all their options and have compassion with themselves when their decision doesn’t line up with the data. Logically it’s unlikely that daycare alone will turn your child into a criminal or create long term mental health problems. There are so many other factors at play that cannot be controlled for in these studies. Just my take.
@recycledapathy Totally, as someone who as worked at multiple day cares there really is no way to have solid evidence for pro or against daycare because every daycare is SO different in the way they do things. I worked at “bad” daycares that did some things better then the good ones, and vise versa.
@recycledapathy I feel like it would be useful to focus on what elements make a daycare good/provide the best outcomes, and then take those and conclude that we should all be pressuring governments and institutions to implement those standards for all daycares.
Like, daycares can be good, but you have to make them good. Ultimately it’s about policy, and heaping the guilt onto individual parents/families isn’t great.
Like, daycares can be good, but you have to make them good. Ultimately it’s about policy, and heaping the guilt onto individual parents/families isn’t great.
@dkeefe Thank you! I was going to comment something similar when I saw the article shared the other day (I see it posted on here all the time). It seems to be the only thing people share when pointing to the downsides of daycare. It does seem thoughtful but at the end of the day, it’s an anonymous Medium post, and I take it with a grain of salt.
@dkeefe I'm a stay at home parent and several kids in my neighborhood are looked after by grandparents. This is totally anecdotal, but holy crap! Grandparents are the worst!
The ones I see have no boundaries with the kids and don't hold firm on anything, and the grab and drag the kids off by the arms when they finally lose their tempers that the kids aren't listening and repeatedly running off.
It's so painful to watch.
The ones I see have no boundaries with the kids and don't hold firm on anything, and the grab and drag the kids off by the arms when they finally lose their tempers that the kids aren't listening and repeatedly running off.
It's so painful to watch.
@elfay00 Oh please let’s try not to get in clichés on the other side. As if any grandparent is inherently bad and unable to watch your grandkid 
like for anything there is always a middle ground and nothing is black and white. We are on a science based parenting. on my side I see many grand parents being really great including my MIL who watches my kid 2 days a week vs 3 days in daycare. Both I think are really great for him. He gets the best of daycare and build a strong bond with his grandparents. I don’t know is just that I see anytime grandparents are discussed on Reddit they are Getting bashed. They did get raise kids before us you know and not all time in a bad manner. and then people complain they have no village. Makes you wonder
like for anything there is always a middle ground and nothing is black and white. We are on a science based parenting. on my side I see many grand parents being really great including my MIL who watches my kid 2 days a week vs 3 days in daycare. Both I think are really great for him. He gets the best of daycare and build a strong bond with his grandparents. I don’t know is just that I see anytime grandparents are discussed on Reddit they are Getting bashed. They did get raise kids before us you know and not all time in a bad manner. and then people complain they have no village. Makes you wonder