@girlperson That’s not the intention of the article. Easy for me to say because we don’t use any childcare. As parents we are all doing what we can with what we got and trying our best. If it makes you feel any better, I feel like a bad parent for not allowing any grandparent time (there’s restraining orders against all grandparents on both sides - me and spouse both come from abusive homes). Every time I see something suggesting grandparents, I feel bad. Even your comment. I don’t blame you and I don’t take it personally, but I do have to constantly remind myself that your comment was not written for or about me in any way. Hope this helps you.
Just my critique of that day care Medium article that is always circulating this sub as it relates to nannies and familial care
- Thread starter dkeefe
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girlperson
New member
@plains I do understand what you’re saying and I’m so sorry you have a rough relationship with your kid’s grandparents. We aren’t quite on that level, but we don’t have great relationships with ours and limit their time with our son, and it hurts seeing people with healthy grandparental support. But wouldn’t my comment support how you feel? I’m saying that grandparents are not always the best solution and many grandparents are inadequate to provide quality daily care. Whereas the article implies that every daycare is a worse option than any grandparent. We’re on the same page, here.
@girlperson Isn’t one of the points of this sub to provide a forum for people to be able to share information without being shutdown on the basis of how the data makes people feel?
@alearose Read some of the comments in this thread. There are things along the lines of “but you make enough money to have a nanny, why are you sending your kid to daycare?”
The problem with the medium article is two sides of the same coin. One is the article itself and the limitations of the analysis. The other is that Redditors treat it like gospel, in spite of those limitations.
The problem with the medium article is two sides of the same coin. One is the article itself and the limitations of the analysis. The other is that Redditors treat it like gospel, in spite of those limitations.
@monchito I believe I’ve read all of the comments. I didn’t see anything like your paraphrase. I saw people debating about how common it may or may not be to make a choice between using daycare or not—is that what you are referring to? Maybe you can link it?
I don’t think the article should be treated as “gospel,” but I also don’t think it should be shrugged off either. Many of the responses here are people saying they don’t like the article because they like sending their own children to daycare, but that doesn’t mean that the statistics presented aren’t accurate—it’s reporting on averages but there’s a range of outcomes behind that (some outperforming the average and others underperforming).
I don’t think the article should be treated as “gospel,” but I also don’t think it should be shrugged off either. Many of the responses here are people saying they don’t like the article because they like sending their own children to daycare, but that doesn’t mean that the statistics presented aren’t accurate—it’s reporting on averages but there’s a range of outcomes behind that (some outperforming the average and others underperforming).
@alearose Here you go.
I think we will have to agree to disagree, because I think we are seeing the comments how we want to see them. I see very few like the top of this chain about feeling shamed by the medium article.
I think we will have to agree to disagree, because I think we are seeing the comments how we want to see them. I see very few like the top of this chain about feeling shamed by the medium article.
the_precious_one
New member
@dkeefe
You're right that these factors are important, but if I had to pick two things based on the reading and analysis I've done (summarized here: choosing daycare for your baby), they would be (1) physical safety, and (2) a consistent, committed, knowledgeable caregiver with whom the child has a strong bond. These are usually indeed directly influenced by the two factors you mentioned, and are easier to achieve in 1:1 care.
I would, perhaps, add "...any committed, caring relative or another caregiver" - but I think the author implies that and by "any" means that it doesn't specifically have to be grandma.
Overall, I do value and agree with the analysis they have done. It's hard to read, yes, but I think our best course of action is to try and improve the system in any small ways we can, while not being too hard on ourselves and realizing that we won't always be able or willing to choose or get that 'universal best', only our best.
For context, my 3 kids went to daycare.
You're right that these factors are important, but if I had to pick two things based on the reading and analysis I've done (summarized here: choosing daycare for your baby), they would be (1) physical safety, and (2) a consistent, committed, knowledgeable caregiver with whom the child has a strong bond. These are usually indeed directly influenced by the two factors you mentioned, and are easier to achieve in 1:1 care.
I would, perhaps, add "...any committed, caring relative or another caregiver" - but I think the author implies that and by "any" means that it doesn't specifically have to be grandma.
Overall, I do value and agree with the analysis they have done. It's hard to read, yes, but I think our best course of action is to try and improve the system in any small ways we can, while not being too hard on ourselves and realizing that we won't always be able or willing to choose or get that 'universal best', only our best.
For context, my 3 kids went to daycare.
@the_precious_one
I don't understand your point. The author explicitly states that nannies are subpar compared to grandma with literally no scientific basis.
I don't understand your point. The author explicitly states that nannies are subpar compared to grandma with literally no scientific basis.
the_precious_one
New member
@dkeefe To clarify, this is how I would edit the sentence: "Before 2½, any committed, caring relative or another caregiver gives the best outcomes. Failing that, nannies are probably better than childminders (in-home daycare) and both are certainly better than daycare centers." (my additions in italics)
Like you, I am not aware of any research that specifically shows that relative care (e.g. grandparents) is better than a nanny. (I think such research would be hard to do because of numbers, samples being skewed by SES and other factors, and challenges in quantifying process quality/relationships.) To be fair to the Medium article author, they don't compare relative vs nanny care directly and say relative care is better than nanny care outright; they do say "relative ... gives the best outcome" - hence my suggested edit.
Like you, I am not aware of any research that specifically shows that relative care (e.g. grandparents) is better than a nanny. (I think such research would be hard to do because of numbers, samples being skewed by SES and other factors, and challenges in quantifying process quality/relationships.) To be fair to the Medium article author, they don't compare relative vs nanny care directly and say relative care is better than nanny care outright; they do say "relative ... gives the best outcome" - hence my suggested edit.
@the_precious_one Realllly wish I could remember what book this was in, but from what I remember, the reason relative care is considered better than a nanny is because a nanny is still a temporary person in most children’s lives. A relative will be around 10 years later (in theory) whereas a nanny probably won’t, and there’s some protective effect from the caregiver still being around later on. If you can somehow guarantee (or get lucky enough to connect well with) a nanny will be around for a while, that’s better long term for the child. Again, I can’t remember what book I read this in as it was a few years ago (when I was a nanny!) but if I remember I’ll edit my comment. That was the gist though.
Of course… this depends on the relative vs. nanny. It’s a balance of impact. A career nanny educated in ECE with lots of experience and knowledge is going to be better overall than a grandparent who is a chain smoker and leaves the TV on all day, I reckon! But that long-term protective factor was the reason I recall that (quality) relative care is considered better than (quality) nanny care. When I was a nanny, I knew plenty of crappy nannies who performed well enough in front of parents… and I knew some wonderful grandparents who were great with their grandchildren… as well as the opposite. Stats can’t sum up your personal situation as a family!
Of course… this depends on the relative vs. nanny. It’s a balance of impact. A career nanny educated in ECE with lots of experience and knowledge is going to be better overall than a grandparent who is a chain smoker and leaves the TV on all day, I reckon! But that long-term protective factor was the reason I recall that (quality) relative care is considered better than (quality) nanny care. When I was a nanny, I knew plenty of crappy nannies who performed well enough in front of parents… and I knew some wonderful grandparents who were great with their grandchildren… as well as the opposite. Stats can’t sum up your personal situation as a family!
fromissouri
New member
@dkeefe The ratios in my country are INSANE:
Looking after young ones is terribly extenuating and challenging at times. Imagine working surrounded by screaming babies that you are unable to soothe because you are literally buried in dirty nappies. I can imagine 99% of those caregivers will not be happy and calm, but rather stressed and burned out.
So it is definitely a ratio and a mental health issue.
If you homeschool your 5 kids or suffer from PPD, your baby will likely thrive more in a good daycare with lower ratios and more emotionally available caregivers. However, if you can access any other calm and loving caregiver, offering your kids a 1:1 ratio is always best.
Like you, I don't really understand the comment against nannies. Given that the 1:1 ratio is maintained in both scenarios, the care would be more beneficial to kids if the caregiver has a deeper emotional bond.
Our nanny was a Godsend. She loved our daughter like she was her own and their relationship was amazing. Our daughter hasn't seen her since she was 20months and still talks about her a year later. On the other hand, I have some family members whom I went no contact years ago. I wouldn't want these people near my kids, regardless of bloodline. Not all family members are made or sunshine and love. Pretending otherwise is terribly naive.
What it's also naive is pretending a good daycare will be better than a good stay at home family. I'm not even talking about having the luxury of one stay at home parent, but ideally both of them. In an ideal world, we would all get 3 years parental leave to raise our kids
- For babies under 1yo: 1 teacher per 8 babies.
- From 1 to 2: 1 per 13.
- From 2 to 3: 1 per 20.
Looking after young ones is terribly extenuating and challenging at times. Imagine working surrounded by screaming babies that you are unable to soothe because you are literally buried in dirty nappies. I can imagine 99% of those caregivers will not be happy and calm, but rather stressed and burned out.
So it is definitely a ratio and a mental health issue.
If you homeschool your 5 kids or suffer from PPD, your baby will likely thrive more in a good daycare with lower ratios and more emotionally available caregivers. However, if you can access any other calm and loving caregiver, offering your kids a 1:1 ratio is always best.
Like you, I don't really understand the comment against nannies. Given that the 1:1 ratio is maintained in both scenarios, the care would be more beneficial to kids if the caregiver has a deeper emotional bond.
Our nanny was a Godsend. She loved our daughter like she was her own and their relationship was amazing. Our daughter hasn't seen her since she was 20months and still talks about her a year later. On the other hand, I have some family members whom I went no contact years ago. I wouldn't want these people near my kids, regardless of bloodline. Not all family members are made or sunshine and love. Pretending otherwise is terribly naive.
What it's also naive is pretending a good daycare will be better than a good stay at home family. I'm not even talking about having the luxury of one stay at home parent, but ideally both of them. In an ideal world, we would all get 3 years parental leave to raise our kids
pauledward
New member
@fromissouri 1 to 2 babies under 2 here in New Zealand, and 1 to 4 over 2 years old. It doesn’t seem like any of these nuances are taken into account in the arguments of people who are so clearly pro one form of childcare or another.
Glad you guys found a good nanny - 1 to 8 would have been instance
Glad you guys found a good nanny - 1 to 8 would have been instance
introspectivemuse
New member
@fromissouri Those ratios are INSANE 
@fromissouri 8 babies is insane! Where I live it’s only 2. You can only have 2 under 2 per person, which leads to an insane shortage of infant spots. We only have 1 infant spot for every 8 babies born in my area.
Now I’m wondering if insane daycare sizes is better than parents with no option getting desperate and choosing unsafe situations..
Now I’m wondering if insane daycare sizes is better than parents with no option getting desperate and choosing unsafe situations..