@nicaea_1q Hope it helps on your parenting journey! You can also Google therapeutic storytelling and see what you can learn!
Hunt, gather, parent
- Thread starter joshdons
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christianlibertarian
New member
@joshdons it made me receptive to my then-3 year oldest attempts to get involved in household chores and everyday events.
before this book, I could see myself making up any excuse at all to allow me to just cook dinner by myself quickly. because involving your very interested preschooler in the process DOES slow you down. but it's been essential for her development and our bonding. it doesn't matter that her assigned task is so tiny -- she loves being involved and helping and then she carries that energy into things I really do need help with: cleaning up toys, dishes, wiping the tables, etc.
great book when taken at face value.
before this book, I could see myself making up any excuse at all to allow me to just cook dinner by myself quickly. because involving your very interested preschooler in the process DOES slow you down. but it's been essential for her development and our bonding. it doesn't matter that her assigned task is so tiny -- she loves being involved and helping and then she carries that energy into things I really do need help with: cleaning up toys, dishes, wiping the tables, etc.
great book when taken at face value.
@joshdons From a fellow anthropologist, I love the commentary!
I think it also depends on the kid. My kid has been slow to warm up to playing independently at playgrounds and for months only wanted to sit on my lap. I'm not going to say no if that's what she asks for. She's always helped out at home though, and she has different chores to help with each parent.
She also talks CONSTANTLY now at 22 months (mostly babbling, some words) and clearly wants to have a "conversation" with me. Again, I'm not going to ignore that even if she wants to tell me about every single dog and bird on our walk to daycare, which means I'm constantly narrating the dogs and birds I see.
However, if she's happily doing something alone, milk that downtime for all it's worth!! It happens so, so rarely for her though.
I think it also depends on the kid. My kid has been slow to warm up to playing independently at playgrounds and for months only wanted to sit on my lap. I'm not going to say no if that's what she asks for. She's always helped out at home though, and she has different chores to help with each parent.
She also talks CONSTANTLY now at 22 months (mostly babbling, some words) and clearly wants to have a "conversation" with me. Again, I'm not going to ignore that even if she wants to tell me about every single dog and bird on our walk to daycare, which means I'm constantly narrating the dogs and birds I see.
However, if she's happily doing something alone, milk that downtime for all it's worth!! It happens so, so rarely for her though.
diabolusaeternitas
New member
@joshdons Somethings about this book are great. Overall it was a win for me because it made me feel more relaxed about parenting and it gave me permission to not feel like I need to play with my kiddo constantly or find activities for them to do. I also liked the chapters on kids helping with chores and tasks. I struggle daily with gentle parenting though and didn't really find those tips super helpful for making that style of parenting more helpful.
@diabolusaeternitas How To Talk and Doctor Becky are much more practical resources on non-punitive parenting or positive parenting.
diabolusaeternitas
New member
@joshdons I read it about a year and a half ago when my daughter was one. Now I have a 2.5 year old. The book is definitely been something that’s acted as a little voice in my head- “slow down, let go, and involve her” are often the little mantras that pop up thanks to that book.
Now she’s at an age where she’s seeking even a drop of responsibility, involving my LO in certain activities has been great. She takes pride in being involved in the house work or being self sufficient.
Now she’s at an age where she’s seeking even a drop of responsibility, involving my LO in certain activities has been great. She takes pride in being involved in the house work or being self sufficient.
nancy102467
New member
@joshdons It was one of those books that could have just been an article or blog post, but I liked the main ideas. I have started focusing more on enjoying caring for our house together, so my kids become a natural part of that and don't look at chores as huge drags but a meaningful part of life. My 3 year old played mommy yesterday and said "baby I am going to wash these dishes and then I'll play with you! You can keep reading or do something else you choose, I just need to wash one more!". It was real cute and made me happy she was so positive about it haha
@joshdons I am so glad that you pointed out the issues because they annoy me too much to take the book seriously XD
In all seriousness though, I haven't read it myself, but what I have read of it, it sounds very similar to Jean Liedloff's The Continuum Concept which was written in the 1970s and I read in about 2008/09 when my first child was born. I loved it and it was probably one of the major influences on my parenting. (I'm sure in hindsight it has similar issues, but I didn't notice them at the time.)
I don't live in the US but I did live in the UK at the time, which has a fairly similar parenting culture. My approach was this: I tried to be specific or praise effort rather than results. I didn't worry about what other people did since I figured that it was most important that I modelled it since I was his main caregiver. I was a SAHM for 2 years (I know not everyone has this option) and when I was looking at daycare options, I prioritised those that seemed to share my values in this way and would have the kind of supportive environment that I valued. So in the end I was choosing between a childminder (I think you call this in-home daycare) who was practicing what I thought of as gentle parenting, she called it positive parenting. There was time out but only rarely, and that was a lot better than many other options at the time. She took the kids around to everyday activities like grocery shopping and school pickup, they had opportunities to play outside with more unobtrusive supervision, a lot of undirected play, a mix of ages. And the other option I looked at was a Montessori nursery school. I went with the childminder and later after he turned 3, there was a lovely relaxed learn-through-play pre-school which continued the same approach through the first year of school, so he would not really start classroom type learning until age 6 (and again there was a mix of age 3-5 in his classroom).
I don't think that totally unsupervised kid play is as safe or idyllic as made out in books - you can find tales of this kind of thing galore if you look at memoirs or similar of generations who were allowed to do this. I don't know if it's something inherent to groups of children because of some developmental lack of empathy, or whether it was linked to harsh physical discipline that was commonly used at the time and they were just acting the same thing out, but it seems to invoke a heirarchical structure upheld by violence. And if you look at cultures/times where children were or are left unsupervised for long periods of time there are unacceptable (to us) levels of accident and injury. So I think it's important for kids to have time where they can learn from each other and be autonomous without adult direction, but I do think that adults need to be aware (unobtrusively perhaps) in order to ensure safety and fairness.
I would say that it's not really a "method" as such so I would struggle to say whether it is "effective" - the most effective parenting book I've ever found is the How To Talk series. That's immensely practical and useful IME. The continuum concept just gave me an insight into the fact that different values other than the default parenting values exist and I happened to like most of these ones and adopted them.
In all seriousness though, I haven't read it myself, but what I have read of it, it sounds very similar to Jean Liedloff's The Continuum Concept which was written in the 1970s and I read in about 2008/09 when my first child was born. I loved it and it was probably one of the major influences on my parenting. (I'm sure in hindsight it has similar issues, but I didn't notice them at the time.)
I don't live in the US but I did live in the UK at the time, which has a fairly similar parenting culture. My approach was this: I tried to be specific or praise effort rather than results. I didn't worry about what other people did since I figured that it was most important that I modelled it since I was his main caregiver. I was a SAHM for 2 years (I know not everyone has this option) and when I was looking at daycare options, I prioritised those that seemed to share my values in this way and would have the kind of supportive environment that I valued. So in the end I was choosing between a childminder (I think you call this in-home daycare) who was practicing what I thought of as gentle parenting, she called it positive parenting. There was time out but only rarely, and that was a lot better than many other options at the time. She took the kids around to everyday activities like grocery shopping and school pickup, they had opportunities to play outside with more unobtrusive supervision, a lot of undirected play, a mix of ages. And the other option I looked at was a Montessori nursery school. I went with the childminder and later after he turned 3, there was a lovely relaxed learn-through-play pre-school which continued the same approach through the first year of school, so he would not really start classroom type learning until age 6 (and again there was a mix of age 3-5 in his classroom).
I don't think that totally unsupervised kid play is as safe or idyllic as made out in books - you can find tales of this kind of thing galore if you look at memoirs or similar of generations who were allowed to do this. I don't know if it's something inherent to groups of children because of some developmental lack of empathy, or whether it was linked to harsh physical discipline that was commonly used at the time and they were just acting the same thing out, but it seems to invoke a heirarchical structure upheld by violence. And if you look at cultures/times where children were or are left unsupervised for long periods of time there are unacceptable (to us) levels of accident and injury. So I think it's important for kids to have time where they can learn from each other and be autonomous without adult direction, but I do think that adults need to be aware (unobtrusively perhaps) in order to ensure safety and fairness.
I would say that it's not really a "method" as such so I would struggle to say whether it is "effective" - the most effective parenting book I've ever found is the How To Talk series. That's immensely practical and useful IME. The continuum concept just gave me an insight into the fact that different values other than the default parenting values exist and I happened to like most of these ones and adopted them.
@cutin I love that you mention Continuum Concept! I've read both books and they're pretty different. I would say Continuum Concept was more "problematic" - not its fault necessarily, it's a product of it's time, but it definitely has a very limited perspective and questionable conclusions. Which is too bad as it has some really valuable ideas too. I think a lot about the goal being children choosing to do the right thing, not doing the right thing because they're forced. And I think it's spot on with some of the stuff about infants. My guy was in general so smart about risk from a very young age (6 months) even as a very active baby.
Hunt Gather Parent has a different goal, wider perspective and some interesting, different and very helpful conclusions. It's just a very different book. I think your hesitations are fair but if you go into it with an open mind and an understanding that it's not perfect you might get a lot out of it.
Hunt Gather Parent has a different goal, wider perspective and some interesting, different and very helpful conclusions. It's just a very different book. I think your hesitations are fair but if you go into it with an open mind and an understanding that it's not perfect you might get a lot out of it.
@crafty I also think about praise with regards to how I acknowledge the accomplishments of other non-small people (adults). If my husband finished a big project at work I would never praise him the way people praise a little kid, it'd be insulting and condescending! Not saying kids necessarily find it insulting but it's a kind of demeaning way to treat them. Does that make sense? I try to treat my guy as though he's a complete person, not an unfinished project. So I try to "praise" in a more mature way - "thanks for helping me unload the dishwasher, that was super helpful" etc
@crafty Haha I think I actually picked a bad example - it's one thing to praise a legitimate accomplishment and another to say "wow Sally this drawing is amazing! You're such a good artist!" Or for the work example to say "wow John you're such a good worker! You did such an amazing job!" In that super sweet tone. Like just praise kids for actual accomplishments in a normal way! And if it's something that's not really an accomplishment (like a mediocre drawing) make a more neutral comment ("you used a lot of colors in this one") or ask a question ("what do you think of it?")
@crafty The gist is that it trains children to respond to extrinsic motivation rather than cultivating intrinsic motivation. The child will do the right thing because they are seeking approval rather than knowing it’s the right thing. Per the book, it’s ok to occasionally praise general behavior that reinforces a value “You’ve been so helpful lately” but not to give positive feedback for every little thing they do “what a good job you did tying your shoes”. I agree it feels automatic, I do it all the time, but apparently our praise culture is a fairly recent phenomenon—it’s because our parents were all told by parenting books in the 80s and 90s to praise us because it would give us good self esteem (at least that is what Doucleff reports).