How can you afford it?

[puddingtader]

This question is for the American members.

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/13k093u/til_birth_rates_in_the_us_have_dropped_more_than

This poster is pointing out that the U.S. is facing a demographic crisis. The response has been, to put it mildly, vitriolic. The one thing that they all point to is the economy. According to them, you have to be some sort of superhuman with great wealth in order to afford having children. They also say they can't bring a child into this horrible world. As a history major, this is absolutely laughable, when we remember how people used to live for the vast majority of our history. Read up on the living conditions of the working class in Victorian England and prepare to be horrified.

What would you say to these people? How can you afford this many children?

 

[zuzi]

@puddingtader It can be done. People are in shock when they hear I live in a 3 bed/2bath house. My mindset- my home is bigger than my grandparents was and they had 11 kids. I am 36, pregnant with child #10. (All same father, oldest is 12, married 13 years). I stay home and homeschool. He brings home 73k. We are not on food stamps. (Our income qualifies for food stamps but because our vehicle is valued over 20k we don’t qualify).

We didn’t have school debt. We knew we wanted a large family and saved everything over the years. Our garage is labeled clothing totes. My kids love having a large family and want to have many kids themselves. I’m a driven, organized person so it all seems normal to me and not complicated. I meal plan everything. I think it’s a matter of mindset and what you value. Value people or value things.

 

[mightyrose]

@puddingtader I don’t get how anyone could be a stay at home parent in 2023

 

[georgehay]

@mightyrose I work at home with my 1 year old. 3 year old is at daycare ($1200 a month), Dad works on site. Basically, we barely make enough to pay for everything, almost everything from gas, groceries and essentials goes on credit cards after major bills are paid. We make small payments and try to not let it get too crazy, but this is definitely not sustainable. Idk how other parents are doing it differently.

 

[mightyrose]

@georgehay And that’s only two kids. My daughter says her best friends mom is a stay at home mom and I just do not buy it. Like that’s not possible these days.

 

[georgehay]

@mightyrose I think after doing the math, with a larger household and only one income source, you end up getting a ton of benefits like food stamps and stuff so you don’t end up in as much of a deficit as you would with both working parents.

This country aims to keep the poor, poor.

 

[mightyrose]

@georgehay As someone who grew up poor food stamps and welfare are no way to live trust me

 

[johnnychrysostom]

@mightyrose It would be a lot more expensive if I worked outside the home. We live on $90k in rural Canada where median household income is $55k. Food stamps don't exist in Canada but everyone gets what used to be called a baby bonus. Other families around here get about $1500+/month. We get $900/month for our 8 month old twins and 17yo (we've been married 20 years). Our 19yo has already left for college.

A few years ago I was working but I quit when my third child was diagnosed with cancer to stay with him. After he died, I didn't go back to working with acft mechanics and engineers. To be frank, I don't care if other peoples planes/flights are safe anymore and I take that as my cue to stay away.

 

[joinder88]

@johnnychrysostom I’m just flipping through posts and saw this, and a few other responses of yours. My God I cannot imagine losing a child to that dreadful disease. I don’t know you but I just, well, I’m so terribly sorry and you have my deepest sympathy.

Im also an older momma, had my first at 18, unwed. Always wanted more, but wanted to do it in the right order. Im finally married now and at 40, my husband and I welcomed two spontaneous identical girl twins. Best of luck to you. It’s exhausting isn’t it!! But so rewarding of course.

 

[wren84]

@mightyrose How? I have four kids and I stay at home. I know numerous other stay at home mothers too.

 

[quirkycanuck]

@puddingtader A lot of these people will also tell you that it’s child abuse to have children share a room or “parentification” to ask older kids to do basic household tasks. I live in a low COL area in the Midwest and most families at my parish have at least three kids, but plenty of us have 4+. No one lives extravagantly, Catholic schools where I live offer huge discounts for multiples (4th child and after is free), and we use the heck out of annual passes to places like the zoo. It’s easier when it’s part of the culture of a place though because everyone around you is parenting in bulk too.

 

[m21820]

@quirkycanuck You are so lucky your schools offer discounts like that! My kids go to catholic school and there are no discounts lol

 

[junobet]

@puddingtader Have 1 parent stay home unless both parents make REALLY good money ( childcare for multiple children is $$$) and live in a lower cost of living area. If you live in a high cost of living area, it will work if you bought your house years ago before housing got expensive, or the parent working makes an obscene amount of money, or both parents make a ridiculous amount of money.

 

[godlovesscience]

@puddingtader Warning: lots of generalizations ahead.

Basically couples before they have children have lifestyle creep, and suddenly there’s all these things that they can’t live without. They bought too much house, too much car, and didn’t have a budget because they made more than enough.

They can’t imagine looking for/taking a job in a location where they can lower their cost of living. They grew up wealthy without ever realizing how well off they were, and now that they are “barely surviving” at that same wealth level, they think things are unaffordable when in reality their parents were either more skilled or lucky in their career.

The cause is a lack of self awareness, a poor/false world view, and selfishness. Raising children doesn’t make you a saint, but if someone really wants children for selfless reasons, money certainly won’t stop them. But if someone just wants to live the “American dream” of a family but is too selfish to sacrifice, then they don’t really want kids anymore than someone wants an exotic car or wants to travel to Europe.

 

[lunarcross]

@puddingtader I know the economy is screwing over a lot of people but there are a lot of jobs that make over 100k is the US. It’s just if you don’t know about them it’s hard to imagine a line of work that does.

It is however, in my experience, harder to make that in other countries. (At least in Europe).

 

[godlovesscience]

@lunarcross I make around $75k in a medium low COL area. Three kids so far and mom stays home. Its very possible to do.

I think $50k would be getting into the difficult territory, which does include something like 35% of the US, though keep in mind this includes retirees and people as young as 18, accounting for that its still probably like 15-25% in the 24-35 age bracket that would struggle hard to afford kids. That is too high in my opinion, though I do believe that a good percentage of those people are in their current financial state due to their own choices and mistakes. I just think of the many 24-35 age people that I worked with in fast food that fit the weed smoker who only listens to music/plays video games stereotype. They're comfortable being there and have no drive to make more. And if those kind of people want kids, they should have to put more effort into advancing their career.

 

[ryanmorgan]

@lunarcross I’m an American in my mid 30s, married, with a 6 figure household income and an almost 2 month old. Between my student loans, child care, rent, the cost of utilities and food, we can’t afford to save for a house nor purchase “luxury” items you’d assume someone with our income could afford. We absolutely live paycheck to paycheck and feel like we’re stuck and drowning. We definitely couldn’t afford to have as many children as we actually want. For us, unfortunately, 1 is all we can afford in the current economy.

 

[lunarcross]

@ryanmorgan I always empathize with people struggling financially but your case doesn’t match the topic of how can people afford a big family. I can see you are a part of the middle class getting screwed over.

I’m 40 and married with 4 kids. Our house hold income was at 180k in the US and is now around £95k in the UK. Fortunately, for us, that income allows us to live comfortably. I sure others make less and have more kids so it can be done just depends on a lot of factors like where you live, etc.

I just wanted to point out that there are a lot of jobs which make really good money that a lot of people don’t realize exist.

 

[harkpuff]

@ryanmorgan I just don’t see how this is possible unless you have a LOT of student debt or you’re saying “6 figures” to describe just around/above $100K ?

 

[lunarcross]

@harkpuff I think a lot depends on location. 100k in some states would have you living really comfortably and some high priced cities that would barely keep you afloat.

I think they are probably just frustrated with their current living situation.