"Cry it out" is not a well-defined term

[rockhopper72]

@sawry1

It sounds like Holt’s theory has been debunked to me.

Oh, absolutely. As the quote says, it's from 1894!

 

[camillanorigera]

@rockhopper72 I think in one of Tracy Cassels' "Evolutionary Parenting Podcast" said that even Holt concluded that he shouldn't have written what he did, because it was literally him and his wife putting down a bunch of things that worked with THEIR kids that others might find useful.

ETA: it's a pity I can't find transcripts but I believe it's in this one

https://soundcloud.com/user-563905685%2Fep-13-how-did-cry-it-out-become-authoritative-in-our-culture

 

[sawry1]

@rockhopper72 I just think it’s funny that people do cite Holt and that quote as a credible source on the safety of CIO

 

[sawry1]

@rockhopper72 I’ve been saying this too! It’s basically the co-sleep vs Bed-share vs surface-share debacle all over again.

 

[ellemess]

@rockhopper72 I agree the terminology is bad.

Extinction doesn't just apply to sleep training. It means changing any behavior by ignoring it. It's the same thing you're doing when you ignore a tantrum in the grocery store over a candy bar. Sleep training, no matter how you do it, is teaching your child that they fall asleep on their own at bedtime. That's why consistency is so important if you choose to do this. Otherwise you're just confusing them and creating extra stress.

I think if you read any of the many modern books on this topic, like Weissbluth (Healthy sleep habits happy child) they don't tell you to leave your baby all night no matter what. Rather, they often advocate extinction or another method AT BED TIME to start. Night weaning is typically separate from sleep training especially for younger babies. Discontinuing night nursing sessions is absolutely not a requirement of sleep training.

I sleep trained using modified extinction at bedtime, but never night weaned purposefully.

I think the biggest issue with this poor terminology on the internet is that people either think there's nothing they can do and are exhausted for years when their children won't sleep because they don't want to "cry it out" or, on the other side of the spectrum, they leave their 4-month-old alone in their crib all night screaming with a dirty diaper because they misunderstand what sleep training actually entails 99% of the time.

Read a book and talk to your doctor, the internet is crazy and will tell you you're a bad parent no matter what you do.

 

[the_precious_one]

@rockhopper72 I agree that it's important to describe what is meant, not just say CIO - or better yet, use specific terms as you suggested. And I agree that even the term 'sleep training' is not well defined: does it always imply some form of extinction?

I am never sure what to call the approach we used. This is how my second baby's sleep evolved (my first was similar but less smooth). My third had extreme reflux so could not sleep flat on his own until almost a year old - and when he could, he just slept through the night pretty much right away. I usually call what we did 'sleep guiding' instead of 'training', but I'm not sure it's the best term either. Maybe 'giving opportunities to self-settle to sleep' (not self-soothe) is the most accurate.

(Edited for clarity.)

 

[sawry1]

@the_precious_one I always associate “Sleep training” with any targeted behavior model approach to sleep (Ferber, full extinction, sleep lady shuffle, etc.). Things like wake windows, bed time routines, etc I call “sleep hygiene”.

 

[the_precious_one]

@sawry1 Yes, thank you, that's a good point. We definitely did our best to have all the pieces of sleep hygiene in place (environment, routines, watching tired signs/wake windows, early bedtimes, etc.). But I guess I also sort of guided my babies toward sleeping alone/connecting sleep cycles smoothly when they had no other needs greater than sleep.

It happened at a different pace and a different way for each baby, because they are different and their needs differed. And maybe that's the main thing, really, as always in parenting: regardless of what opinions others might have, we do our best to raise the baby in front of us, using best available science AND our best knowledge of our specific, unique baby (and ourselves).

 

[sawry1]

@the_precious_one It’s also totally okay if your needs as a parent change with each baby.

 

[wackwife23]

@rockhopper72 There are also a lot of parents, especially in my breastfeeding groups, I've noticed think CIO means letting your baby cry at all for even a short period of time even if you're there. This is definitely not the same thing. Babies cry, that's how they communicate. In fact, sometimes we all need a good cry and some snuggles.

 

[feelinglostagain]

@rockhopper72 Agree. Even the term sleep training now is so broad and not well defined. Some ppl go full extinction and cio for 12 hours. Others do the step by step comfort until out.the door. It's so much variation

 

[john185]

@feelinglostagain Omg this. I see so many moms posting about how they can’t sleep train cause they can’t leave their baby to cry. You don’t have to leave your baby crying and you don’t have to sleep train if whatever your doing is working