I'm making my daughter fast until 5pm

[feadees]

@untilnow It’s not that faith alone sustains you - you still have to eat and drink. It’s to show you obey God and there are more important things than fleeting desires. If you are a practicing Muslim it’s also not that much of a sacrifice I do it every year and I find it quite easy. It’s not brainwashing if someone chooses to do it. Even if someone is choosing to do something you don’t like.
But if you’re not Muslim I can imagine it would be annoying of course.

As far as the law goes that’s messed up-there’s many reasons even within the religion people shouldn’t be fasting and just making it illegal to eat and drink outside as if everyone was supposed to be fasting all the time is stupid.

That said I hope you leave that country soon. They certainly don’t need people there that look down on them “helping” them.

 

[untilnow]

@feadees I reserve the right to judge when uninvolved parents send their 5 year olds (I mean, the driver takes them not the parents) to school without food and water in 100 degree heat, who didn't go to bed until midnight. They don't know why they are fasting and spend the day crying or half sleeping at their desks. In the US it would be grounds to call CPS. Here though? No one cares as long as you're being a good Muslim.

The literature I have read about fasting openly says to beat your children if they are not obedient and quotes the prophet himself to encourage that enlightened religious teaching.

When you tell a 5 year old they're going to hell if they don't obey the command of god (fasting), it's brainwashing. I also left a Christian faith for the same reasons. I reserve the right to judge the followers of a belief system whose prophet married a 9 year old girl and openly justify child abuse in the form of beating or child marriage. Modern western Muslims gloss over these things because the influence of modern society has influenced their daily practice away from these things...that isn't credit due to the enlightened followers, it's credit due to the advancement of society.

Like you state, i have observed that after the first few days fasting isn't a huge struggle so I think OP is being dramatic about how much her daughter mentally scarred this kid. Granted, her kid was being a jerk but she seems horrified by how someone could laugh at a person SUFFERING SO MUCH when really, fasting isn't a huge struggle at this point in the month.

 

[feadees]

@untilnow No its not suffering. I agree the issue was the child being a bit of bully not making fun of someone who is “suffering” but I’m not sure that’s really what OP meant anyway.
What you’re saying about 5 yr olds fasting is pure BS. Kids aren’t supposed to be fasting until they are teens. Either you are straight making stuff up or there are just some ignorant parents making their kids fast when they are not supposed to be. Most parents do “practice fasts” of an hour or two so the kids can feel they are part of it without actually fasting.

Nobody should be telling a kid they are going to hell. That’s bad parenting and has nothing to do with Islam. A) Kids are not responsible until they come of age (in Islam one comes of age when they hit puberty-similar to turning 18 in the west); therefore they don’t fast, nor will they go to hell. Ignorant parents exist but don’t put that on the rest of us.

There’s nothing about beating your child if they don’t fast either. And the prophet said to NOT beat women “The best of you are the best to your wives”. That’s a very specific Hadith. About his marriage to Aisha much ink has been spilt at the end of the day he married her after his best friend (her father) insisted and it was common for the time-the age of consent was puberty. All his other wives were around his age or older than him with the exception of Aisha.

Anyway-I am not surprised to find this hatred of Islam under your comment-I could tell a mile away. I hope to God you leave those poor people alone and go back to whatever country you came from.

Btw I left Christianity too.

 

[untilnow]

@feadees Holy crap you are so ignorant about how your religion is practiced round the world.

I am most definitely not making stuff up. It's horrifying what parents do here in the name of obedience to god. Most kids are fasting all day by the time they are 10 here. Some alternate days or go part of the day.

The VERY FIRST link in a Google search about kids fasting during Ramadan is this

https://www.islamweb.net/eramadan/articles/169245/rulings-on-fasting-children-i

In the first paragraph it explicitly mentions beating kids who don't comply with prayer.

It is also very clear that fasting should start at age 7 to prepare them for when it is required. I know many children sent to school with no food or water at 5, 6, and 7 years old. I tried to report it to my school's management and nothing was done because there are no child protective services in my country.

The fact that you do not make your kids go without food and water in kindergarten is cultural, it's not by virtue.

I'm not hating on Islam only, I left religion for similar reasons it is used as a vehicle of manipulation and abuse.

Ah yes the classic "it was common at the time!" argument. Like you said there is lots of data suggesting that no, it wasn't common for men to marry 6 year olds even during this time. I guess we can all pick and choose which examples to follow from the prophet!

 

[feadees]

@untilnow No kids are not supposed to fast until after puberty. You can keep your freaking google searches “islamweb” is not a source. I have a MA in Islamic studies and I’ve read the Quran and multiple Hadith sources in Arabic. I don’t need any google searches to tell me what I know. So you can gtfo. It’s not cultural. It’s part of the religion not to fast until they are older. I don’t know what country you are in. If that is happening they are doing it wrong. It’s classic for islamophobes to pick and choose what they think is “authentic” and to tell Muslims what their religion really is. You are no authority.
I’m an American but I’ve lived in various countries in the Middle East. Some people are ignorant but not in Egypt, Yemen, Oman, or Jordan have I seen people make their kids fast. You don’t want to name what country your in fine. But I will reserve my disbelief.
I see your an expert in Islamic history too and think that it was not common for people to marry after puberty but it was (and no not she wasnt 6-she was somewhere between 9-15).

Why are you even in a Muslim country?

Edit: actually the more I think about it, I don’t believe your entire story now. So good night or good morning wherever you are.

 

[untilnow]

@feadees LOL this is rich. Someone challenges your beliefs so you insist they are lying.

I'm in the Gulf. I prefer not to have to make another account and like to be semi anonymous.

We have been here 5 years and work with kids. Maybe you weren't close with many Omanis?

I literally just took a 6 year old on a playdate who fasted all day until sundown. His mom texted me to make sure he broke his fast at call to prayer and he told me he was waiting to have water. They are Egyptian. I don't know if he fasts every day, as many children alternate days prior to puberty.

I had 3 kids sent to school at 5 years old with no food or water. I told the school nurse, she called the parents, they sent the nanny to provide lunch when they finally answered. This was last school year.

I know it's not required. It's a cultural thing here to get your kids to fast young. My moroccan friend said she never had to fast at all until it was compulsory. It's cultural.

I bet you wouldn't believe if I also said that GASP covering is compulsory in some parts of the Gulf, and I need my husband's permission to get a bank account, credit card, loan, driver's license, or job? Are they doing Islam wrong too? hahaha

My judgment is not reserved for Islam. I am from a heavily Mormon town and have lots to say about their craziness. I was raised devoutly Catholic and have a whole lot to discuss about their issues, too.

As for Aisha, Sahih al-Bukhari's hadith says "that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old..." soooo

I don't know any 6 year olds going through puberty

 

[feadees]

@untilnow Honestly you lost all credibility with me when you said it’s cultural to not have my kid fast until he’s older; it’s not. Also when you said Muslims thinks faith sustains us during the fast. No that’s clearly body fat. Exemptions to fasting are children; pregnant, breastfeeding or menstruating women; sick or traveling people. Those are the exemptions go ask any sheikh you want. That’s the religion for all Muslims.

If the people you know are making their kids fast they shouldn’t be. No one I knew did that where I lived and the people I know here who come from various parts of the world don’t either. I was mostly close with Yemenis-and I did wear niqab there as well.

Yeah I know Saudi makes it compulsory to cover. I know they also require a man for bank accounts and stuff and yeah they are “doing Islam” wrong there too. People shouldn’t need a mahram to take care of their financial affairs. Women shouldn’t have been prevented from driving and the list goes on. Saudi is notoriously tyrannical and I am no friend to them as they are killing and starving innocent people in Yemen.

As far as covering there is good evidence for practicing Muslim women to cover and I welcome it for myself; but it’s ridiculous to make non Muslim women cover and I question forcing Muslim women to cover if they are not ready. Its is just more dictator stuff. As far as Aisha the marriage counts when it was consummated and not when Abu Bakr made the arrangement.

I realize it’s hard for you to grasp that the people you know are not the final word on Islam but they are not. And you don’t get to decide my beliefs and the people I know are wrong and the people you work with are following the correct religion and everything is cultural.
Since you are so concerned about my culture let me tell you what my culture does: they have lockdown drills because children young as 6 are regularly murdered at school and my culture won’t touch gun regulation; my culture separates innocent children and babies from their parents-drugs them and exposes them to predators and at least 6 have died my country’s southern border; my country hotly debates whether children have a right to food and health care if they are poor; my culture’s police force shoots down 12 year old boys if they have a toy gun without checking; my culture pardons war criminals who murder teens in Iraq. Shall I go on? I’m sick of people saying my culture is the pinnacle of enlightenment. It had some good times but it’s literally a mess now.

No none of the countries you are in are perfect; far from it but excuse me if I’m not clutching my pearls because some parents are teaching their kids a religion and mistakenly making them fast-there’s worse shit going down everywhere. Teaching a kid a religion is not brainwashing. I was taught a religion and so were you and neither of us follow that religion as adults. I had a decent upbringing despite my Christian parents and evangelical HS.

Honestly I’m picking up some resentment and arrogance here towards the people you live with. Go home. Then you don’t have to worry about what other people teach their children.

 

[seymoure]

@untilnow Take this guy with a grain of salt. Most of the Muslim community around where I live and abroad seems to disagree with the idea that “God alone sustains you” is the reason why they fast.

 

[untilnow]

@seymoure Lots of people tell themselves it's about "understanding the poor" or some bullshit but the imams I've spoken to have rejected that as the primary motivation for fasting.

 

[seymoure]

@untilnow Sure it’s not primarily about understanding the poor, but it absolutely isn’t “God alone can sustain us”, that isn’t grounded in any Islamic tradition that I’m aware of.

 

[feadees]

@judyc Good for you for being proactive with these types of issues. I’m a Muslim and I think the core issue here is unkind behaviour to another girl and not so much the eating in front of her. Fasting is pretty easy once you get used to it and I’m sure seeing other girls eating in front of her was much less upsetting than them being unkind.

It’s good to learn about other cultures. It sounds like you live in a diverse area. But keep in mind kids that age often are unkind to each other for many many reasons and it’s a good chance to teach about empathy and proper social behaviours. I think you are off to a good start.

 

[h31s]

@judyc I think that’s an awesome way to both discipline your daughter and teach her important cultural lessons. Considering the majority of the Muslim population is currently fasting, I don’t think it’s harsh to have your daughter experience a day of fasting

 

[judyc]

@h31s Thank you. We live in an extremely multicultural town, and we are latino so this is why it was so hard for me to hear.

 

[paige_w]

@judyc You’re not a bad person but denying children food just to teach a lesson is not super cool

 

[katrina2017]

@judyc Food, water, clothing and use of facilities should never be denied in order to correct behavior. There is never a good reason.

Honestly, a 10 year old child shouldn’t be made to fast. This is very cruel. Fasting begins once kids are 14 and up. This coming from my husband who has been practicing Islam his entire life. I’ve seen my husband’s family keep the young ones fasting and it’s so sad to watch.

Find a different way to explain this to her. The Ramadan paper is pretty awesome and I think I’ll use this on my kid when he’s older. At the end of the day, it’s your kid and your choice.

 

[armour_101]

@judyc To keep it simple, I tell my kids that if everyone in the group is genuinely laughing, then it's funny. If there is one or more people that aren't laughing, and they're being laughed at, that is bullying and is totally not ok. It's mean and unkind. Your daughter and her friend where basically bullying the girl. Good on you for not ignoring it!

 

[katrina2017]

@judyc Good on you for teaching your daughter about respecting others and tolerance. However, I am going to say that fasting until 5pm is a bit too much for someone who’s never done it before, especially for a child. I was around your daughters age when my mom first had us fast for Ramadan and she made us do a half-day fast or fast until 12pm. And I can honestly say that it was real tough doing it for the first time! I think a half-day fast is a great way to learn but a full day I think is a bit much because some people can’t go that long for the first time. I don’t want to come across as disrespectful, but that’s just my two cents.

 

[judyc]

@katrina2017 I'm not taking this as disrespectful at all. Thank you very much for your input. I really didnt plan on doing this, it seemed like the right choice at the time, now I dont want to go back on my word.

 

[alan7057]

@judyc Perhaps do what Muslim families do. Wake her up at 3:30 in the morning to eat before she fasts for the day. It would be a good quiet time to talk about differences among cultures.

 

[yagsittam]

@judyc This is not too drastic in my opinion, especially if there is plenty of time for discussion and reflection at the end. You're teaching empathy through means that are reasonable and related. You might even consider doing it with her.

Edit: Just noticed you did. Cool!