@dinkold Toddlers are capable of a frankly terrifyingly overgrown level of hunting/gathering competence, coupled with the impulse control of, well, a toddler. My little gal started popping avocados, unbidden, into the basket of my shopping cart the other day at the store where they're super expensive while telling me "we need avocados", and when I told her nope, we've still got a few at home we need to use up, she looked me dead in the eye and switched to "I need avocados" while still reaching for another.
Hunt, gather, parent
- Thread starter joshdons
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redeemed121
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@dinkold I had SUCH a hard time with narrating. The relief I felt when I read hunt gather parent and realized I wasn't ruining my child by not narrating was insane. It just never felt right to me and I'm not an extremely extroverted/social person to begin with and talking all. Day. Long. At my son was EXHAUSTING. I stop narrating, full stop, and just talk to him normally, like a normal human
@dinkold I definitely plan to stop narrating asap—it felt so bizarre to begin with but I’d been told how good it was for language acquisition so I forced it, but now I’m in the habit and I actually hate it!
And I have seen Old Enough and think it’s great
I mostly worry the car culture in my area is just too different from Japan or the Netherlands to let my kid roam free…
And I have seen Old Enough and think it’s great
I mostly worry the car culture in my area is just too different from Japan or the Netherlands to let my kid roam free…cameronb67
New member
@joshdons Your comment about narration raises a point that’s always been interesting to me. Since so much of the way that parents in the book operate is predicated on societies that look very different from ours, to what degree should we as parents be stepping in to fill the gap of the village?
For example, I, like Michaeleen, hate playing pretend with my four year old. It’s super exhausting and boring to me. But in many other societies she would have other kids to play with for large swaths of the day. So I worry that by depriving her of imaginative play (which she almost never wants to engage in alone at this point), I’m doing her a disservice. I’m not sure that I’m right to worry but I do anyway.
Same goes for narration. In many societies, a young child would hear human speech as the primary caregivers communicate with others throughout the course of the day. But in many American households, a young child may be alone with the mother, or another caregiver or baby, all day long. So then I start to wonder if speaking to the baby becomes more important. I mean it still feels weird sometimes, but it’s already a weird setup to begin with.
Hope I’m making sense. I just think it’s interesting to think about. I don’t have an answer for any of these questions other than it’s exhausting to be the whole village.
For example, I, like Michaeleen, hate playing pretend with my four year old. It’s super exhausting and boring to me. But in many other societies she would have other kids to play with for large swaths of the day. So I worry that by depriving her of imaginative play (which she almost never wants to engage in alone at this point), I’m doing her a disservice. I’m not sure that I’m right to worry but I do anyway.
Same goes for narration. In many societies, a young child would hear human speech as the primary caregivers communicate with others throughout the course of the day. But in many American households, a young child may be alone with the mother, or another caregiver or baby, all day long. So then I start to wonder if speaking to the baby becomes more important. I mean it still feels weird sometimes, but it’s already a weird setup to begin with.
Hope I’m making sense. I just think it’s interesting to think about. I don’t have an answer for any of these questions other than it’s exhausting to be the whole village.
@cameronb67 I think you're totally right to ask these questions. I think one of the great things about a book like this is that it sparks so much thought and gives you a new perspective. Are there any other similar age kids will live nearby that you could have come over? Do some babysitting if other kids? I'm a big believer that watching multiple slightly-older kids is easier than watching a single child.
cameronb67
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@brione I’ve been trying really hard to make that happen. People really keep to themselves here, and I’ve gotten to the point where if I see a kid in our neighborhood I almost feel like a creep cuz I’ll linger around and wait for their parents so that I can try chatting. I do have a neighbor about fifteen blocks away who has a similarly aged kid and we have been trying to get them together. I won’t give up, honestly, this is very important to me. I grew up the child of immigrants and was very isolated and I don’t want the same for my kids.
@cameronb67 If if makes you feel better, I once saw a mom with a kid my daughter's age and almost ran two blocks for catch up with her to say hi, but figured that'd be terrifying lol our neighbourhood barely has people out and about, either!
I've joined a stay and play and library time that's helped immensely.
I've joined a stay and play and library time that's helped immensely.
@cameronb67 Finding other families to spend time around helps with this a lot, and can have many other "village like" benefits.
cameronb67
New member
@cameronb67 Yes! I thought about this a lot too and not just in the context of language but just experiences generally that I’m not able to provide by myself. I’m making a big effort now to hang out with friends and other local parents during the day, but yeah it’s not as easy as is it should be. I actually would love to enroll him in daycare part time so that he gets a little “village” but it doesn’t make financial sense at the moment. Anecdotally, I’ve heard parents say daycare prompted big leaps in their child’s language and social skills very quickly.
jacksonralf
New member
@cameronb67 Exactly my thinking as well. As someone who really has no family, I took all of this into consideration and decided to take more of an active role (in terms of engaging and narrating) than is outlined in the book. It’s kind of like studies in education. You can’t just look at educational techniques that work in Sweden and transplant them into American schools. There is a host of cultural and situational differences that will get in the way.
@joshdons The author wrote an npr article about teaching her daughter to go to the grocery store in SF. It’s something that you teach and build up to, within the tot’s capabilities and your comfort zone.
The elementary school that my toddler will go to is 3 blocks from our house. The school doesn’t allow Kindergarteners to walk to school by themselves, but does allow first graders. He won’t be a toddler anymore but it’s something we can start now, how to cross the street, etc. Compared to when I was a kid, I didn’t walk home from school until 5th grade. So I guess it’s an improvement and any bit we can give helps. Even if it’s driving them to the store and waiting outside while they do the shopping.
The elementary school that my toddler will go to is 3 blocks from our house. The school doesn’t allow Kindergarteners to walk to school by themselves, but does allow first graders. He won’t be a toddler anymore but it’s something we can start now, how to cross the street, etc. Compared to when I was a kid, I didn’t walk home from school until 5th grade. So I guess it’s an improvement and any bit we can give helps. Even if it’s driving them to the store and waiting outside while they do the shopping.
anthonycon3131
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cameronb67
New member
@joshdons PNW American here. I’m heavily invested in this book, and I take the “spirit of the law” approach, rather than the letter of the law. Yes, I won’t be letting my kid play unsupervised in the streets for a while if ever probably BUT the book reminded and encouraged me to seek community, so a likeminded neighbor and I are starting a regular play thing in her cul de sac one day a week. The bedtime stuff really helped me. A lot. And yeah, while I can’t control the society around me, my children’s most formative and influential relationships will be with me and their dad, so the way we react to them will have a more significant impact I believe.
It also gave me permission to dislike a lot of kid-oriented stuff and not feel bad about not making it the core of my life. And encouraged me to treat my child with respect, stop interrupting and instructing her so much, and to listen to her and observe her actions.
Edited to add: Almost forgot - the idea of “my inherent authority as a parent” was a game changer for me. I suddenly realized how ridiculous I was being getting in petty power struggles with a preschooler.
It also gave me permission to dislike a lot of kid-oriented stuff and not feel bad about not making it the core of my life. And encouraged me to treat my child with respect, stop interrupting and instructing her so much, and to listen to her and observe her actions.
Edited to add: Almost forgot - the idea of “my inherent authority as a parent” was a game changer for me. I suddenly realized how ridiculous I was being getting in petty power struggles with a preschooler.
@joshdons Hands down I found this the best parenting book for many of the reasons others have commented. Some of my biggest takeaways were: involve in your daily routines/habits and not feel the need to entertain (I feel this goes really nicely with a minimalism/anti consumerism mindset) and also that most of the western ideas we have about parenting don’t have a scientific or historical basis. Most people and cultures have been parenting in very different ways for many centuries- and a lot of what we do is WEIRD.
I think praise is definitely ubiquitous but I try to model for family and others the line between being excited and sharing joy, and building intrinsic motivation
I think praise is definitely ubiquitous but I try to model for family and others the line between being excited and sharing joy, and building intrinsic motivation
@soccergrl Yeah I understood her point about too much praise, but I’m still cheering on LO when I see her hit all these milestones.
@joshdons The book is mildly problematic for reasons you pointed out, but I too have found it useful. My son LOVES cleaning, cooking and gardening with me. I give him time to respond after I ask him to do something instead of repeating myself 100x. I’ve also helped him get through fears and big feelings through acting out scenarios, which is something I learned from a friend who is a play therapist, but is also mentioned in the book as a means of solving conflict.
@nicaea_1q The book OP mentions talk about it in regards to conflict between kids. I don’t remember exactly so I won’t try to explain.
I can give an example of what I do.
My son was 23 months when we potty trained. He was afraid to poop on the big potty. When he was calm, we would use his stuffed animals to act out the exact thing that happened when my son used the potty, word for word what he would say etc
Then I would come up with a resolution, like a mama stuffed animal comforting the baby and the baby then pooping on the potty. Then the animals would do something silly like have a dance party. I’d do it over and over until he stopped laughing or naturally lost interest. After a few days, my son was no longer afraid to poop on the potty!
I could go on about the power of story and play in helping kids process big feelings or learn a new skill.
I can give an example of what I do.
My son was 23 months when we potty trained. He was afraid to poop on the big potty. When he was calm, we would use his stuffed animals to act out the exact thing that happened when my son used the potty, word for word what he would say etc
Then I would come up with a resolution, like a mama stuffed animal comforting the baby and the baby then pooping on the potty. Then the animals would do something silly like have a dance party. I’d do it over and over until he stopped laughing or naturally lost interest. After a few days, my son was no longer afraid to poop on the potty!
I could go on about the power of story and play in helping kids process big feelings or learn a new skill.