Does sleep training even work?
- Thread starter cyberrocky
- Start date
eternalgrace7
New member
@whosthe2witnesses I'm in the same sub! Some of the sleep training comments on there have been so upsetting I took breaks from the group
whosthe2witnesses
New member
@eternalgrace7 Thought your username seemed familiar haha! I don't blame you although there is a fairly strong anti sleep training faction which helps me stick around.
gracelynne
New member
@whosthe2witnesses I saw this advice several times while snooping on the sleep training subreddit as well. Also read that about parents needing to re-train babies while travelling by letting them sleep in the bathroom of the hotel, and not knowing how to handle sleep situation when the kids started talking and being able to explain why they were scared when before they had just „happily“ cried themselves to sleep. I just could never... I understand that im extremely privileged because I’m in Europe and have maternity leave, but even if I had to wake up and go to work I cannot imagine letting my baby cry and not helping him. Even before having a baby I would wake up usually at least once every night to help my old dog back up to the couch in the middle of the night after she had jumped down to drink water. 
@gracelynne Went on a trip with a friend who sleep trained her kid. She just cried for every nap and to go to bed. They had sleep trained 'successfully' months ago. If its such a success, then shouldn't they not be crying? It's so baffling to me that people even do it. I got so anxious I had to leave the cabin until baby fell asleep.
They also had to shove towels under the cracks of the door and have things 'just so'
Meanwhile, my daughter slept the same as the sleep trained baby with no extra things needed except a noise machine to keep our noise out.
Love that your help your old doggo. Just makes sense to me!
They also had to shove towels under the cracks of the door and have things 'just so'
Meanwhile, my daughter slept the same as the sleep trained baby with no extra things needed except a noise machine to keep our noise out.
Love that your help your old doggo. Just makes sense to me!
jeanettelindsay
New member
@cyberrocky “Option 1: When healthy, and a consistent routine and environment are in place, you stay out until morning. This may result in 30-45 minute stretches of crying as they navigate this transition. This may take 2-3 days. (Remember, there will be some good nights and some not-so-good nights. Hang in there.)
Option 2: Set a goal of staying out 5 minutes longer than you can stand. Then soothe for 1-2 minutes, three times, and feed after the third time. You can increase the time you stay out every 3-5 nights. You get to choose what is within your comfort level. This may take 2-3 weeks. Remember, this process can take up to 3 nights and in that time this child will learn how to sleep in his/ her own crib.
It is also time to get off the 24-hour digestion train. Their GI system is ready for a nice, long rest. We will drop any lingering, middle of the night feedings. They will increase their intake during the day. They will not starve. They will get what they need incrementally during the day.”
— Moms on Call | Basic Baby Care 3-6 Months
Soooo I’m supposed to let my literal three month old cry for 30-45 min stretches throughout the night and take away her food just so I can sleep longer?
This isn’t an army bootcamp or college class for adults. This is someone who has been alive for THREE MONTHS and is still learning to navigate their environment and hey - may still be hungry in the middle of the night because their stomach is tiny especially if they are getting breast milk.
I love schedules and I want to give my child structure if or when that is needed but this just doesn’t make sense to me.
Option 2: Set a goal of staying out 5 minutes longer than you can stand. Then soothe for 1-2 minutes, three times, and feed after the third time. You can increase the time you stay out every 3-5 nights. You get to choose what is within your comfort level. This may take 2-3 weeks. Remember, this process can take up to 3 nights and in that time this child will learn how to sleep in his/ her own crib.
It is also time to get off the 24-hour digestion train. Their GI system is ready for a nice, long rest. We will drop any lingering, middle of the night feedings. They will increase their intake during the day. They will not starve. They will get what they need incrementally during the day.”
— Moms on Call | Basic Baby Care 3-6 Months
Soooo I’m supposed to let my literal three month old cry for 30-45 min stretches throughout the night and take away her food just so I can sleep longer?
This isn’t an army bootcamp or college class for adults. This is someone who has been alive for THREE MONTHS and is still learning to navigate their environment and hey - may still be hungry in the middle of the night because their stomach is tiny especially if they are getting breast milk.
I love schedules and I want to give my child structure if or when that is needed but this just doesn’t make sense to me.
gracelynne
New member
@jeanettelindsay My baby is 3,5 months and still struggle and cries when he has to poop sometimes. But sure, self soothing is totally possible..
gracelynne
New member
@cyberrocky So I’m in Germany and here I was literally warned against sleep training experts and CIO in my baby course and birthing class. I was told that this is NOT healthy for the baby and that what a baby needs to learn is that when he needs help his parents are there for him. This is what will build his confidence and independence. Not crying out for help alone in the dark with no one responding.
One thing I always wonder about is the whole “no judgement”-policy that there seems to be in the US. I understand that CIO is very normal and a lot of families do it because they are sleep deprived to a level where it is dangerous because of a criminal lack of maternity leave. But still: I personally find it hard not to judge even a little bit - especially when I see people being proud how they let their baby cry for hours and vomit from exhaustion, how they used noise cancelling headphones etc. It is just cruel, it really makes me feel physically sick thinking about it. Just imagine if they did this to a child of 7 years old: let them cry and cry for hours, vomit themselves and not respond: anyone would call authorities immediately. But with a baby we’re supposed to be okay with it? Like? I think part of this is because a 7 year old is able to explain what is wrong and why they are crying, a baby people just go: yeah babies cry no big deal. But babies don’t just cry, they cry for a reason to: being uncomfortable, hungry, needing help or reassurance- those are all super valid reasons for crying! Especially if you have literally only been outside the womb for a few months. And then you tell me I’m supposed to just ignore that and let him cry? It’s barbaric really and I sincerely hope that the sleep training industry will face some backlash - and most of all that American mothers are granted proper maternity leaves so it won’t even be necessary to consider sleep training your baby.
As for my baby he contact naps, we cosleep and currently wake up every 1,5-2 hours to nurse or cuddle between sleep cycles and it’s tough but I love it. I feel so privileged that I don’t need to worry about getting up to work but even if I had too I just couldn’t let him cry and I think it’s crazy that a country that are so anal about safe sleep rules etc and you are basically crucified for leaving a blanket in the proximity of your baby, are so okay with something so instinctively wrong that parents need to get drunk and use headphones to get through it. If they are stressed, imagine the baby.
Sorry for the rant, I never have the chance to get out these feelings on the parenting subreddits because it’s all “no judgement” but sleep training is just something that I can really not understand.
ETA I’m a huge fan of the bbc articles on baby sleep and sleep training too and the fact that no scientific studies can prove any benefits from this just supports my thoughts on the subject.
One thing I always wonder about is the whole “no judgement”-policy that there seems to be in the US. I understand that CIO is very normal and a lot of families do it because they are sleep deprived to a level where it is dangerous because of a criminal lack of maternity leave. But still: I personally find it hard not to judge even a little bit - especially when I see people being proud how they let their baby cry for hours and vomit from exhaustion, how they used noise cancelling headphones etc. It is just cruel, it really makes me feel physically sick thinking about it. Just imagine if they did this to a child of 7 years old: let them cry and cry for hours, vomit themselves and not respond: anyone would call authorities immediately. But with a baby we’re supposed to be okay with it? Like? I think part of this is because a 7 year old is able to explain what is wrong and why they are crying, a baby people just go: yeah babies cry no big deal. But babies don’t just cry, they cry for a reason to: being uncomfortable, hungry, needing help or reassurance- those are all super valid reasons for crying! Especially if you have literally only been outside the womb for a few months. And then you tell me I’m supposed to just ignore that and let him cry? It’s barbaric really and I sincerely hope that the sleep training industry will face some backlash - and most of all that American mothers are granted proper maternity leaves so it won’t even be necessary to consider sleep training your baby.
As for my baby he contact naps, we cosleep and currently wake up every 1,5-2 hours to nurse or cuddle between sleep cycles and it’s tough but I love it. I feel so privileged that I don’t need to worry about getting up to work but even if I had too I just couldn’t let him cry and I think it’s crazy that a country that are so anal about safe sleep rules etc and you are basically crucified for leaving a blanket in the proximity of your baby, are so okay with something so instinctively wrong that parents need to get drunk and use headphones to get through it. If they are stressed, imagine the baby.
Sorry for the rant, I never have the chance to get out these feelings on the parenting subreddits because it’s all “no judgement” but sleep training is just something that I can really not understand.
ETA I’m a huge fan of the bbc articles on baby sleep and sleep training too and the fact that no scientific studies can prove any benefits from this just supports my thoughts on the subject.
@cyberrocky From the various bits of research and studies and podcasts-articles-books etc I've come across I would estimate it works for about 20% of babies.
You'll see higher success rates claimed because of some of this fudging and because people who do sleep train tend to self select and I think you know in yourself if your baby is likely to react poorly.
I can't remember all my sources but interesting listening:
Any interview with Lyndsey Hookway, or Helen Ball from Durham, or Prof Amy Brown.
Evolutionary Parenting's series on sleep training.
Amy Brown's study of baby sleep books.
You'll see higher success rates claimed because of some of this fudging and because people who do sleep train tend to self select and I think you know in yourself if your baby is likely to react poorly.
I can't remember all my sources but interesting listening:
Any interview with Lyndsey Hookway, or Helen Ball from Durham, or Prof Amy Brown.
Evolutionary Parenting's series on sleep training.
Amy Brown's study of baby sleep books.
godwrestler
New member
@cyberrocky My first baby needed so much help with sleep even from being a newborn and would literally latch all night or I'd have to rock her for hours sometimes. If I put her down for one minute, she would scream her little heart out.
My second slept through the night for the first three months. I thought there was something wrong with him actually. If he'd have been my first baby, he'd have gone through the 4 month regression and I probably would've bought in to the whole sleep training thing because he was "capable" of sleeping through the night and didn't ever really comfort feed. However, because my first had made me so anti-sleep training because of how traumatic it would have been for her, I co-slept with my second pretty much as soon as he started waking in the night and basically forced feeding to sleep on him. He's now 2.5 and shouts me every night, anywhere between midnight and 5am and literally hasn't slept through since 4 months. A monster of my own making perhaps!
My second slept through the night for the first three months. I thought there was something wrong with him actually. If he'd have been my first baby, he'd have gone through the 4 month regression and I probably would've bought in to the whole sleep training thing because he was "capable" of sleeping through the night and didn't ever really comfort feed. However, because my first had made me so anti-sleep training because of how traumatic it would have been for her, I co-slept with my second pretty much as soon as he started waking in the night and basically forced feeding to sleep on him. He's now 2.5 and shouts me every night, anywhere between midnight and 5am and literally hasn't slept through since 4 months. A monster of my own making perhaps!
hoanphamkhong1
New member
@cyberrocky It depends on baby.
We tried and it works. We had schedule notes to the minute. But each tooth ache or monthly nursery bug reset everything. We went through tears, vomit and blood (biting bed guards) to finally give up and throw all that theory to the bin and just follow the baby's pace.
So much more peaceful and less stressful, although not without tiredness. Tired but lower stress.
Find your own way.
We tried and it works. We had schedule notes to the minute. But each tooth ache or monthly nursery bug reset everything. We went through tears, vomit and blood (biting bed guards) to finally give up and throw all that theory to the bin and just follow the baby's pace.
So much more peaceful and less stressful, although not without tiredness. Tired but lower stress.
Find your own way.
gmasweetart
New member
@cyberrocky 10000000 % agree with you! Sleep training was never for our family so we have never gone down that route however I can’t say a single thing about feeling tired or sleep without all the ladies in my mothers group carrying on about sleep training and how easy it was and they never looked back but one admitted to me they’ve had to do it several times!
I’ve managed to find a few mum friends who have similar parenting style to me and have never sleep trained either and it’s so much easier talking to them because they are on the same page and I feel so much more supported and understood. I’ve since distanced myself a bit from my original mothers group to pursue more nourishing and real friendships (not that I couldn’t have good friendships with people that sleep train their babies because that might work for their family and their babies temperament but to push so hard and invalidate me because I won’t “try” it is the reason these women aren’t my people)
Additionally my daughter has always been more attached to me and honestly myself to her also. The thought of her crying without me to help her makes me cry. I think I’m a very emotional person plus when she was born she spent time in NICU and I wasn’t able to stay with her due to Covid so I also think that perhaps I’m still a bit sensitive about that! I wish sleep training wasn’t pushed so hard because for us parents of highly sensitive children or for those of us who like myself are highly sensitive adults it’s just unnecessary pain and struggle and for what?
Who is 30 and gets their mum to cuddle them to sleep? Pretty sure when our kids are teenagers and barely want to give us two words and a grunt haha we will wish we could cuddle them to sleep
I’ve managed to find a few mum friends who have similar parenting style to me and have never sleep trained either and it’s so much easier talking to them because they are on the same page and I feel so much more supported and understood. I’ve since distanced myself a bit from my original mothers group to pursue more nourishing and real friendships (not that I couldn’t have good friendships with people that sleep train their babies because that might work for their family and their babies temperament but to push so hard and invalidate me because I won’t “try” it is the reason these women aren’t my people)
Additionally my daughter has always been more attached to me and honestly myself to her also. The thought of her crying without me to help her makes me cry. I think I’m a very emotional person plus when she was born she spent time in NICU and I wasn’t able to stay with her due to Covid so I also think that perhaps I’m still a bit sensitive about that! I wish sleep training wasn’t pushed so hard because for us parents of highly sensitive children or for those of us who like myself are highly sensitive adults it’s just unnecessary pain and struggle and for what?
Who is 30 and gets their mum to cuddle them to sleep? Pretty sure when our kids are teenagers and barely want to give us two words and a grunt haha we will wish we could cuddle them to sleep
@cyberrocky Im more about schedule and routine versus training. I am strict when it comes to our bedtime routine and putting baby in his crib. One thing I am taking a hardline on with this second kid is no bed sharing because his sister did until 5 and still at 7 still has issues sleeping independently. I just prefer to not repeat that and I find we sleep better in our own beds.
christianloyalty
New member
@cyberrocky First, I 100% agree that it depends on baby’s personality. Full stop.
As someone who couldn’t bring myself to sleep train, I did still look into it because I struggle hard when I get less than 5 hours of sleep at night. First, no research out there shows long term detriments or benefits to sleep training. When I say long term, I specifically am talking more than 5 years. I’m looking to see what ST a baby May do to their development as an adult. No studies really show anything on this. So, on one hand, if any of you parents feel like you have no other option but to sleep train, the good news is your baby should be developmentally fine, though that is still inconclusive right now. In fact, I think given that ST babies do wake and cry for things like illness and teething, it shows that on some level they can distinguish between really needing help or just wanted comfort to fall back asleep. What this means is that if you sleep train and are afraid your baby will not cry bc they think you won’t come - I don’t fully think that’s true bc through regressions we see that they do still cry! They do still want you!
Anyway, I’m not by any means an expert or a scientist. As I said, I couldn’t bring myself to sleep train but I absolutely understand the desperation as a parent with a low sleep needs child. He’s so much better as a toddler and we are still cosleeping and contact napping, but there were bad times where I seriously considered ST for my sanity and my family’s health.
As someone who couldn’t bring myself to sleep train, I did still look into it because I struggle hard when I get less than 5 hours of sleep at night. First, no research out there shows long term detriments or benefits to sleep training. When I say long term, I specifically am talking more than 5 years. I’m looking to see what ST a baby May do to their development as an adult. No studies really show anything on this. So, on one hand, if any of you parents feel like you have no other option but to sleep train, the good news is your baby should be developmentally fine, though that is still inconclusive right now. In fact, I think given that ST babies do wake and cry for things like illness and teething, it shows that on some level they can distinguish between really needing help or just wanted comfort to fall back asleep. What this means is that if you sleep train and are afraid your baby will not cry bc they think you won’t come - I don’t fully think that’s true bc through regressions we see that they do still cry! They do still want you!
Anyway, I’m not by any means an expert or a scientist. As I said, I couldn’t bring myself to sleep train but I absolutely understand the desperation as a parent with a low sleep needs child. He’s so much better as a toddler and we are still cosleeping and contact napping, but there were bad times where I seriously considered ST for my sanity and my family’s health.
ezrasnumberonefan
New member
@christianloyalty A lack of research on long term negative effects of sleep training does not mean that there are none. The reason there isn't any research is because it is tricky and time consuming. There are too many variables.
However, research about baby brain development and secure attachment is enough to tell us, that sleep training does in fact have negative life-long consequences.
There are also groups / forums for people who were sleep trained as babies and are now adults, where you can read about their experiences. Most of them are addicts, have depression, anxiety, are incapable of forming relationships etc.
For some reason people who've done CIO love to brag about it, like its some type of achievement. It doesn't matter what information is provided, it's like they live in complete denial, repeating the same over and over again. I think it is some sort of coping mechanism, because they know deep down it's wrong and they are unable to deal with the guilt.
However, research about baby brain development and secure attachment is enough to tell us, that sleep training does in fact have negative life-long consequences.
There are also groups / forums for people who were sleep trained as babies and are now adults, where you can read about their experiences. Most of them are addicts, have depression, anxiety, are incapable of forming relationships etc.
For some reason people who've done CIO love to brag about it, like its some type of achievement. It doesn't matter what information is provided, it's like they live in complete denial, repeating the same over and over again. I think it is some sort of coping mechanism, because they know deep down it's wrong and they are unable to deal with the guilt.
christianloyalty
New member
@ezrasnumberonefan
Hence why I said it’s inconclusive. Without proper research around sleep training specifically, it’s hard to use only attachment theory studies because they don’t account for nuance. For example, if a parent who is sleep deprived doesn’t sleep train, they could experience depression, hallucinations, or other factors that significantly impact attachment to a child. In those cases, it could be a question of which is worse to attachment. As I said, I fully understand someone needing to ST if their mental or physical heath is affected because that can absolutely impact parenting quality.
Hence why I said it’s inconclusive. Without proper research around sleep training specifically, it’s hard to use only attachment theory studies because they don’t account for nuance. For example, if a parent who is sleep deprived doesn’t sleep train, they could experience depression, hallucinations, or other factors that significantly impact attachment to a child. In those cases, it could be a question of which is worse to attachment. As I said, I fully understand someone needing to ST if their mental or physical heath is affected because that can absolutely impact parenting quality.
katrina2017
New member
@cyberrocky My baby gets put down wide awake and falls asleep almost instantly. I think it’s different for everyone but we just made sure to be consistent with routine. I never let her CIO either so idk if that’s really sleep training. My heart could never handle it