@joew1983 Very much agreed! I’m on the other side of the fence - I’ve personally decided to do it, but only after thorough research and engaging in risk mitigation efforts. I acknowledge that I am taking a risk, but for me personally it is a level of risk I am ok with, but only after thoroughly reviewing the research. I also choose to transport my child by car; in a country where car travel is not really necessary. There are risks involved there, and I mitigate them as well. I think everyone should make informed choices about what risks they’re willing to take. Even so, I try to have my child sleep in his bassinet/crib as often as possible. But as a breastfeeding mother, I am aware now of what I need to do to ensure my space is safe when co-sleeping does occur. Without having sensible data driven discussions, we risk making something taboo and reacting from emotions and not reason. I don’t see why we cannot acknowledge and discuss risk without resorting to such emotional antics and opinionated bias
@juliaraine 100% it's disappointing to see the attitudes that come out with this topic.
Yes there are risks, and there are ways to mitigate those risks- as with most parenting choices.
Can we not support ppl with resources to weigh the risks and benefits to make their own informed choices, without judgement. Is bedsharing a choice all families should make? 100% they should not, but a parent who is trying to do it as safely as possible should not be judged for that - 60-80% of parents bedshare or surface share in the first 6 months (either accidentally or planned) according to studies were parents self report in the US and Au. Isn't is preferable that those parents have the knowledge and resources to do it as safely as they can?
That's our policy in Au, even Rednose.org.au our Sids organisation has info on how to do it as safely as possible to reduce risks and reduce the liklihood of deaths from unplanned and unsafe surface sharing.
I try to give benefit of the doubt that judgemental tones (on either side) aren't purposeful, and hope that is true for ppl commenting here.
@xuanang01 Here's the thing. It'll raise your risk of SIDS. You can mitigate some of that risk. You are weighing that risk against flying a helicopter on limited/no sleep. That is way out of the usual scenario. Do what works for your family.
@soldieroflogos SIDS is directly related to parents being intoxicated while co-sleeping, exhausted parents falling asleep with babe on unsafe surfaces like couches, and having baby surrounded by pillows blankets etc. (predominantly). practicing the safe sleep seven, has been spoken about over and over and over again as being not only safe but also results in everyone getting more sleep. In the united states there is fear mongering around sids and no honest discussion or education around safe bed sharing practices.
@gell There are safer bed sharing practices that are extremely important, but you still elevate the risk. Enough to make it worth it? That really depends on the family and the kid. We're talking like 0.08/1000 (separate bed) vs. 0.22/1000 (safe shared bed).
That's still over double the risk, but the absolute risk is small. So would I consider that "safe"? Generally, but like I said, it just depends. Would I elevate the risk on a kid who sleeps fine? Well, no. But the ideal case is not what's going to happen in many cases, so you weight the risk/benefit and make the decision.
I do generally agree though that nuance is nowhere to be found in public health information. It's always best case vs. no advice. No middle ground.
@gell SIDS is only one part of SUID (but people talking about SIDS generally don't mean 'I'm worried about my child's death being an R95-coded death', they mean 'I'm worried about my child dying in their sleep.')
Even so, if you only review SIDS deaths (only about 1/3 of SUIDs overall), Carpenter et al found (using UK, Europe and Australasia data), that for babies less than 3 months old, who are exclusively breastfed, have nonsmoking parents, and whose mothers had not had any alcohol or drugs in 24 hours, the increased risk of SIDS because of bedsharing was 5x compared to ABC sleep.
@soldieroflogos I refuse to even drive while sleep deprived. This [extremely small] study found reaction times to be worse with sleep deprivation than with inebriation. Other studies have also shown sleep deprivation to be comparable to alcohol intoxication as well, this was just the first one that popped up.
The comparison in this instance shouldn't be the risk of sids with or without bedsharing. The comparison should be risk of causing a major accident (in a large flying object!) due to sleep deprivation versus the relative risk of sids due to bedsharing.
@xuanang01 Okay I have no advice but because I am tired (and staying up far too late just so I can have some me time) I read the title as "cosplaying and bed sharing with a 4 month."
@xuanang01 Curious why sleep training wouldn't work for your family but consistently waking up and screaming does? What I mean is, not sleep training is already causing the issue of sleep training, unless I'm mistaken? Under the circumstances, consider rethinking that stance... The safe sleep seven are NOT scientific, also.
@sawry1 "Safe Sleep 7" bedsharing nonsense originated from a LLL book published in 2014. The book itself was written by four LLL board members and none of them have any relevant pediatric, public health or product safety credential to be giving infant sleep or safety advice. One of them had an impressive career of being LLL secretary before she became board member.
Anyho, the book itself is a condescending mishmash of misinformation and far fetched claims with some cherry picked data thrown in between just to make it look legitimate. We have in the past addressed in detail all of the "research" cited like dr McKenna, so I would like to focus on the images in this book. They are horrifying. They depict extremely unsafe safe sleep environments. They show bedsharing that does not comply even with their own completely fabricated Safe Sleep 7 rules. "Not too soft a bed." - there are images which show both infant and the adult sinking into a bed. "Watch the cords and gaps." - multiple images show unsafe towels, blankets, mattress cut outs and all sorts of improvised items stuffed into gaps, completely unsafe use of portable bed rails for children under 2 years old in conjunction with additional unsafe bedding items, extreme wedging and entrapment hazard gaps between improvised "sidecar" cribs attached to adult beds. "Keep the covers off his head" - babies in the images in their book are sleeping on adult pillows, covered by adult duvets and blankets shared with the adults. Good luck trying to keep baby's head not covered by your adult bedding in that scenario.
One of the most infuriating passages in the book is about how you should determine what is safe for your baby by ignoring furniture and product safety regulation and mandatory safety standards. "A safe surface is mostly common sense." No it's not. For infants and toddlers it is federal law strength mandatory product safety regulation, same kind of regulation that ensures car seat safety. It is not a furniture manufacturer conspiracy. It is regulated by law to ensure that it is safe for your baby. Please do not entrust four lactavists with zero qualifications with your baby's life same way you wouldn't trust them if they told you to ignore car seat safety regulation because "a safe car seat is mostly common sense".
@ourvoyage Okay and the guidelines themselves still align with the evidence. I’ll also add that since then SS7 has been updated and adopted by public health organizations in other countries. The problematic conception of the guidelines doesn’t change that it is in fact supported by science. A concept isn’t condemned to never being “scientific” because it originated among bad information.
Im also not it seeing any data in your comment that shows SS7 steps don’t decrease at least some risks.
@xuanang01 I would not recommend bed sharing. I was bed sharing with my 7 month old at my parents house. She fell out of the bed onto the hard wood floor. I was so confident she wouldn’t fall out because I had read all this stuff from the Le Leche League and attachment parenting that baby will always turn to me. since we were breastfeeding. I was wrong.
She had a bump on her head. We took her to the ER and she had a skull fracture. By morning her bump had disappeared and they told us to follow up with neurosurgery. I also followed up with the pediatrician who said she was “prefect” and you couldn’t tell she fell. She has acted like herself since she fell. I ended up not following up with neurosurgery because I asked what they where going to do, since they won’t repeat the CT scan and she is acting like herself. They said nothing so I didn’t.
So I don’t recommend bed sharing, but maybe if you put the mattress on the floor or put a bunch of pillow down it would be safer. No sleep is dangerous too.
