Turning 30, thinking about quitting law school after my first semester to start a family. Advice?

[ladyghosthunter]

*preface: I know it’s a lot going on here! Husband and I have been together for 10 years, we are so strong together. He’s kind and supportive. Financially we are solid. If I continue law school, I’d have $250k in loans. We travel internationally a lot and leaving law school would allow us to do more so even with our little one!

We are so ready to start our family and we want 4-5 kids if possible.

However, I am in my first semester of law school and I wouldn’t want to get pregnant until after summer 2024 when I’ve finished 2 years of school and completed 2 summer externships. I would be okay getting pregnant the beginning of my 3rd year. But I would be 32 when we have our first.

But at the same time, I don’t want to wait that long! I know in the grand scheme of things waiting 2 years may not be a huge deal and it gives me a J.D.

Fortunately my husband does well so we are good off his salary. But the only concern of mine is the feeling of not having a purpose outside of my kids. I feel like having my JD will be empowering whether I choose to practice as an attorney or just go the JD advantage route.

My mom was a doctor, but then spent 12 years as a SAHM, then went back to work. Her advice was that it’s important to have an identity outside of being a mom because your kids will form their own identities and it won’t be centered around you.

My MIL never worked and was SAHM. Her sons are both reaching 30 now and she’s 55. Her identity is solely focused around being a mom but it’s tough now because both her children are grown men with their own partners/family. She seems to be struggling and resorts to drinking heavily.

I know everyone is different, but from the women I personally know who have SAHM, they tend to struggle with purpose/identity later in life when the kids leave. This is what is holding me back from leaving law school and starting a family. But I can also see myself being super happy going this route if leaving school, starting a family and loving it for 10-13 years, but once everyone is a teen and in their own world, I could feel lost.

How are you planning for this?

I know everyone is so different, but any advice/shared experiences would be helpful!

 

[bali]

@ladyghosthunter I’m currently in law school and had a 6 month old when I started. It’s very feasible. The only reason I’m doing it is because I really really want a JD and have a scholarship that covers almost 100% of my tuition.

If you don’t want to be an attorney, don’t do it. This is just general law school advice, totally separate from family stuff. It’s totally possible to have kids and law school with a supportive spouse, but if you don’t actually want to, then it’s a waste of time and money.

 

[cmaker3]

@bali I agree with this! I am a lawyer. Law school is professional school. It trains people to become lawyers. Nobody says they want to go to medical school because they might want to be a doctor or they might just want to find a job where their medical knowledge could be an asset... because medical school is expensive, and grueling, and why would you put yourself through it if you didn't want to be a doctor? But for some reason law school is treated differently, even though law school is also expensive and grueling.

OP, if being a lawyer is your dream, and you want to figure out how to fit your family into your career vision, that is wonderful. There are a lot of lawyers out there who can talk about how they managed to do it all. But if the question is, "how do I make sure I have an identity outside of my kids?" I don't think "go to law school!" should be the first answer.

 

[1astrokid1]

@ladyghosthunter What is your past work experience? Personally don’t see how $250k of debt would be worth it

 

[ladyghosthunter]

@1astrokid1 Prior to law school work experience: mostly spent working in political campaigning and then a couple years at big tech in sales

 

[tim_o]

@ladyghosthunter Ok then I’m assuming you’re thinking about law school to get back into politics? That is reasonable, but again don’t think that’s worth $250k and especially not if you might just want to stay home for a while. You can do a MA in Public Policy for less and get to your same end goal I would think.

 

[justintime25]

@ladyghosthunter My husband works in tech policy in a JD advantaged role. Large tech company. His job is extremely rare. He went to a good law school but also knows the right people. He wouldn’t have his job if he didn’t know the right people and didn’t have the exact work experience they needed. He also has $250K in student loans.

(I also am an attorney but I paid off my $150K via billing 3500 hours a week in biglaw and then STUPIDLY laterally to government.)

Don’t go to law school unless you want to practice law. The JD advantaged policy jobs are a fluke. You should assume you’ll be practicing.

 

[janthonys]

@1astrokid1 Yeah definitely a lot hinges on this. What are your career prospects when you graduate? I would def caution against quitting tho. You seem to be aware but a lot of folks have regrets/disappointments for not finishing achievements. You'd potentially be leaving money on the table as well. Are you saying you'd be leaving school to be a SAHM?

 

[tim_o]

@1astrokid1 Assuming it’s a top tier school, a starting salary for law grads can be upwards of $300k. She could pay it back quickly, but that may mean putting off TTC for a little longer.

 

[erik1611]

@ladyghosthunter Yeah, also an attorney and I don't think it makes any sense for you to take on $250k of debt to have a backup plan and interests outside being a mother. You can have those things without being a lawyer. If you take on that much debt you may be essentially trapped into a job you don't want to have. You haven't mentioned wanting to be a practicing attorney anywhere in here. Childcare isn't cheap. I don't know a single attorney who has 4-5 kids. I know one attorney who has 3, most have 1-2. I graduated 5 years ago with about $100k in debt and my starting salary was $54k.

 

[matthewv]

@erik1611 Ya - about to be a mom of 3, full time nanny is the same cost as daycare at about $55K a year. For the next five years.

 

[tim_o]

@erik1611 *any female attorney. I’m sure many men do, but they don’t think about being stay at home fathers.

 

[erik1611]

@tim_o None of the male attorneys I know have 4+ kids either. I'm not suggesting that she should be a stay at home mother either. I'm talking about the student debt and childcare costs together because I think the combined burdens of $250k in loan debt and childcare for 4-5 kids may be a lot more financial burden than she's thought about. Even if OP sought public service loan forgiveness you need to make 120 payments first. It sounds like her husband's income is substantial so she may not qualify for IBR. My payments on $100k of student loan debt were about $1200/mo. So with $250k of debt you're talking about maybe $3000/mo, maybe less as interest rates are lower now, but it's a large amount of money. Then start thinking about childcare and you're going to need a big law salary including big law hours where you won't have much family time just to pay for debt and childcare.

 

[greenrock]

@ladyghosthunter I can’t give you career advice, but in regards to having 4-5 children, have you thought about what age gaps between children you’d be willing to have? Or how old you’d want to be when you have your last child?

I want a large family too so we did a bit of planning to figure out the logistics of it. We want 4-6 kids, with approximately a 2 year age gap, and we want to be done around 35, maybe a bit later!

 

[tamlamc]

@ladyghosthunter I agree that you should have an identity outside of being a mother, but I personally don’t think that identity has to be in a career. After identifying with my career and losing it for health reasons, I regret not having invested in my hobbies, interests, spirituality, things that can’t be taken from me. It seems like you want to be a mom. The same way you could go back to work after SAHM, you could also go back to school after SAHM. But I don’t think 250k worth of student loan debt is worth having an “identity” or a back up plan - but again, just my personal opinion! Invest your time in your health, your passions, yourself. You will be more than a mother, and you will be more than a lawyer. You will always, above all else, be you

 

[justinchoate]

@ladyghosthunter I’m a female attorney. If you want to make good money as an attorney to pay off the 250K, then you’re not going to have time for kids for another 4-5 years, at the very least. You’ll want to get out of school, pass the bar, and work for a couple of years (if you plan on being a SAHM for a little while and actually want a shot in hell at working again after you do SAH, you will absolutely want to work for a period of time).

Also, the quality of your school really matters for your job prospects. The 250K makes me hope that you are a T10 school and not at one of those awful low-tier for-profit law schools that should be closed for churning out low-quality grads that struggle passing the bar.

I graduated law school at 24. I’m 32 now and I was working 60-90 hours a week when I was in big law. They pay you well enough to make up that kind of debt you would be taking on, but they will grind you into dust and take everything from you. And to even have this opportunity, you’ll have needed to be near top of your class at a good school (it can be regionally good and not necessarily nationally good to still be afforded this opportunity, but you will be competing with other grads from better schools).

If you don’t see yourself doing it long term and wanting to be a SAHM for a period of time, you may find it hard to get back into a practice. So much of law is “use it or lose it.” It is not like riding a bike in my experience: the longer you’re away from it, the harder it is to ever go back (competently)—and that’s assuming anyone would want you. That kind of gap in practice is hard to overcome from a hiring perspective.

You can find another way to give yourself purpose but I would seriously consider a different path, pending more information.

Also, a JD gives you very little in the way of job prospects. You need to pass the bar and then work to put what you’ve learned into practice to actually make any of this worth it.

 

[sisi]

@ladyghosthunter My husband is a lawyer and got his JD at 34 (career change) but he went to a top 10 law school and had scholarships that meant he graduated with very little debt (and what little he did have we were able to pay it all off pretty much immediately with the proceeds from selling my house, and still had enough for a downpayment on our own the next year), and that was why it was possible. $250k in debt sounds insane to me, especially when you want 4-5 kids. What I've learned is that in law, even with a prestigious degree like my husband's, you have to make a tradeoff between work-life balance and money - that's true for any job but with law it's really stark. He wasn't at a point in his life where he was willing to do 60+ hour weeks for a firm that was just about making money, and luckily he didn't have to because we didn't have debt, but if he did it would have put us in a tougher position.

We have 2 kids now and I agree that it's important to have an identity outside of them, and continuing to work was important to me. But especially in the early years, you absolutely need flexibility and work-life balance and I think you have to really ask the hard questions about how that can happen. I myself had our first kid the second year of grad school (also career change) and just got full licensure now while our second is 9 months old, but again graduated with negligible debt. Daycare costs for 2 are pretty outrageous, and for more than that plus that much debt? I'm not going to say you absolutely shouldn't do it, but I do think you should very seriously ask yourself why law, why this school, and if there are other paths that could be fulfilling to you and not put you into crushing debt and little way to get out from it without sacrificing time with your family (which could also entail a lot of extra childcare costs). There's also just the fact that 4-5 kids when you start at 32 sounds REALLY pushing it and perhaps unrealistic unless you have really unhealthy short spacing, which is its own kind of stress on your body and career. But I think overall looking for a third option beyond lawyer with $250k of debt and permanent SAHM is the way.

 

[adita]

@ladyghosthunter 4-5 kids at age 30? If I were you I would get to it right away. You really want to be trying for #4 or 5 at age 40plus?

 

[1astrokid1]

@ladyghosthunter FYI I watch “Lauren Miller” on YouTube. She does personal finance and recently quit being an attourney because she hated it and was drowning in law school debt - don’t be her! She instead does YouTube and is a stay at home mom now but budgets are tight because of her debt

 

[mikeyd0110]

@ladyghosthunter Only you can decide this, but if I were you I'd quit and not look back. The only reason I'm still pursuing my PhD is because they pay me a stipend. I thank God I didn't go to med school like I wanted originally, because I'd be in debt and debating being a sahm just as I am now. The truth is, priorities shift when you become a mom and your identity doesn't have to be in your career. And if you decide a career is still something you need to be fulfilled, you can go into many fields with the education you already have, likely making just as much as if you were an attorney without the stress.