acuriousgirl
New member
@becomingabeliever I’ve definitely been in therapy for years and am a therapist myself, which is why I’m so frustrated I cannot figure this out despite trying very hard!!!
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Parent Child Coercive Cycle Vs attachment/gentle parenting?
- Thread starter acuriousgirl
- Start date
@acuriousgirl Parent-Child Interactive Therapy (PCIT) prescribes a very structured kind of parent-child play that is designed to maximize positive interactions and build a kid’s tolerance for parents’ setting boundaries. It’s suitable for children younger than about age 6 or 7. One of the concepts in PCIT is that investing the time in the positive interactions pays off later in the kid being in a better mood and therefore more cooperative. We found it very helpful.
acuriousgirl
New member
@acuriousgirl As others have said, you can and should marry the two. Here is how I see it:
1) mean what you say and say what you mean- that is, boundaries and especially holding these boundaries are one of the most important things you can do. So pick your battles wisely.
2) prevention is key- that means, find the pattern and prepare. Once you are in meltdown or tantrum land, talking a ton and trying to fix it there is futile. Your toddler doesn’t have the bandwidth to learn much here. And the worst time to correct a mistake? When it is happening
3) the ABCs of parenting don’t imply that all tantrums and toddlers misbehavior are maintained by parental attention (although many are and attention often gets captured). When there is a tantrum because you said we have chicken for dinner and they want something else, you can validate and support them as a much as you want- because it’s not about your attention as it is about what they want for dinner. The worst mistake here is giving them another dinner choice after they tantrum (see #1). If you know they don’t like chicken and you are fine with two choices, then present two choices initially - before the tantrum (see #2).
One of the most important studies done by early behavior analysts showed the power of attention. That is, any kind of attention- positive or negative can be reinforcing to someone. This was done in a time where reprimands and punishment were frequent. The authors point is that what we are using to decrease a behavior might actually be increasing it. This doesn’t mean ignore everything but rather do an analysis of what might be increasing particular behaviors and ensure those follow actions we want to keep seeing.
1) mean what you say and say what you mean- that is, boundaries and especially holding these boundaries are one of the most important things you can do. So pick your battles wisely.
2) prevention is key- that means, find the pattern and prepare. Once you are in meltdown or tantrum land, talking a ton and trying to fix it there is futile. Your toddler doesn’t have the bandwidth to learn much here. And the worst time to correct a mistake? When it is happening
3) the ABCs of parenting don’t imply that all tantrums and toddlers misbehavior are maintained by parental attention (although many are and attention often gets captured). When there is a tantrum because you said we have chicken for dinner and they want something else, you can validate and support them as a much as you want- because it’s not about your attention as it is about what they want for dinner. The worst mistake here is giving them another dinner choice after they tantrum (see #1). If you know they don’t like chicken and you are fine with two choices, then present two choices initially - before the tantrum (see #2).
One of the most important studies done by early behavior analysts showed the power of attention. That is, any kind of attention- positive or negative can be reinforcing to someone. This was done in a time where reprimands and punishment were frequent. The authors point is that what we are using to decrease a behavior might actually be increasing it. This doesn’t mean ignore everything but rather do an analysis of what might be increasing particular behaviors and ensure those follow actions we want to keep seeing.
continualseeker
New member
@acuriousgirl
The Yale course is a version of Parent Management Training (PMT). There are other versions of PMT that might be a better fit for you because they include psychodynamics that are associated with attachment parenting.
You can learn it from the Incredible Years parenting book:
https://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Years-Trouble-Shooting-Children/dp/0578434512/
(You can find used older editions of the book online for less than $10)
https://livesinthebalance.org/parents-and-families-tour/
4 years old is the lower age limit.
CPS does not call itself "gentle parenting", but it seems to be advocated by parents who are into gentle parenting.
CPS measures out as being as effective as PMT for behavior problems in randomized controlled trials, But it gets somewhat less credence, perhaps because their are fewer trials and the trials have relatively more involvement of the creators.
There are two similar versions of CPS due to a lawsuit over a parenting method!
Here's the other version:
https://thinkkids.org
I realized through these comments where I feel stuck is I feel like attachment parenting focuses on attuning to your child while they’re dysregulated and focusing on the connection between you two, whereas behaviorism emphasizes how that can reinforce the negative behavior. So now I feel like I shouldn’t or can’t attune to my kid , but then I worry if I don’t do that, my kid won’t feel safe or loved. So I’m not sure what to do.
The Yale course is a version of Parent Management Training (PMT). There are other versions of PMT that might be a better fit for you because they include psychodynamics that are associated with attachment parenting.
- Incredible Years: Take a look at the Incredible Years Parenting Pyramid to get an idea of what it is all about:
You can learn it from the Incredible Years parenting book:
https://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Years-Trouble-Shooting-Children/dp/0578434512/
(You can find used older editions of the book online for less than $10)
- PCIT: Here is a free version of PCIT https://www.pocketpcit.com/
https://livesinthebalance.org/parents-and-families-tour/
4 years old is the lower age limit.
CPS does not call itself "gentle parenting", but it seems to be advocated by parents who are into gentle parenting.
CPS measures out as being as effective as PMT for behavior problems in randomized controlled trials, But it gets somewhat less credence, perhaps because their are fewer trials and the trials have relatively more involvement of the creators.
There are two similar versions of CPS due to a lawsuit over a parenting method!
Here's the other version:
https://thinkkids.org
anayat11011
New member
@joben This is interesting to me. I definitely do both, I make myself available to my kids. I do drop what I'm doing. Other times I just go "I get it, it's hard to leave" as I escort them out. I do not think of myself as extreme. We also have done some time outs when behavior is not redirectable. And I do not always "connect" before I "correct." Many times it's "unacceptable" before anything else. The difference for me is I don't see a tantrum as behavior. And for my kids specifically, it's because I've been responsive that tantrums dont result in behavior. They don't need to go throwing things to feel heard, they're already being heard.
I have 3 kids. 2 are old enough (6 and 4) to say this decision to comfort tantrums has not ever reinforced the tantrum in the least. Not once. In fact, both my kids went through the tantrum phase and came out of it as very well adjusted and emotionally mature. I get compliments on their behavior all the time from their teachers, visitors to our home, family, etc. Neither of my older kids has ever misbehaved in school and I'm 100% not making that up (nor would I judge anyone who's kid did).
I'm sure at some point in the future there will be research on this. We know emotionally responsive parenting more generally produces better behaved kids. But I'd also agree that responsiveness means being attuned to what your kid actually needs. They don't need a ten minute long vent session where you grill them on their feelings. More likely they need a quick hug. I am however looking forward to more brain research on the developing brain and more studies around comforting tantrums and whether or not that encourages more.
I have 3 kids. 2 are old enough (6 and 4) to say this decision to comfort tantrums has not ever reinforced the tantrum in the least. Not once. In fact, both my kids went through the tantrum phase and came out of it as very well adjusted and emotionally mature. I get compliments on their behavior all the time from their teachers, visitors to our home, family, etc. Neither of my older kids has ever misbehaved in school and I'm 100% not making that up (nor would I judge anyone who's kid did).
I'm sure at some point in the future there will be research on this. We know emotionally responsive parenting more generally produces better behaved kids. But I'd also agree that responsiveness means being attuned to what your kid actually needs. They don't need a ten minute long vent session where you grill them on their feelings. More likely they need a quick hug. I am however looking forward to more brain research on the developing brain and more studies around comforting tantrums and whether or not that encourages more.
@anayat11011 I don’t disagree with anything you said!
I didn’t mean my post to come off like I am against comforting kids having a hard time. Tantrum and meltdown are broad terms that can encompass a host of ages and behaviors. Responsive parenting means responding appropriately to your kid in the situation you and your kid are experiencing in the moment. Depending on many factors that can look differently. Gentle Parenting can also honestly be pretty non-responsive parenting if you have a lot of parenting scripts or pre-existing ideas and assumptions.
I do think it’s possible to reinforce behaviors under the guise of gentle parenting or supporting emotions.
I didn’t mean my post to come off like I am against comforting kids having a hard time. Tantrum and meltdown are broad terms that can encompass a host of ages and behaviors. Responsive parenting means responding appropriately to your kid in the situation you and your kid are experiencing in the moment. Depending on many factors that can look differently. Gentle Parenting can also honestly be pretty non-responsive parenting if you have a lot of parenting scripts or pre-existing ideas and assumptions.
I do think it’s possible to reinforce behaviors under the guise of gentle parenting or supporting emotions.
lionheartiv
New member
@acuriousgirl That sounds a lot like gentle parenting to me? Gentle parenting =/= permissive parenting.
continualseeker
New member
@acuriousgirl Here is a quote from the creator of the Incredible Years program:
"My work is a synthesis of my origins on the East Coast, where the psycho-dynamic was pervasive, and my life here on the West Coast where there is a tradition of behaviorism. In the late 1970s barricades separated the two approaches. But I didn't see it like that. Of course, we can learn effective behavioral strategies, but we have to recognize feelings and emotions."
https://www.incredibleyears.com/blog/news/incredible-journey-cws-prevention-action
In a previous comment, I recommended the Incredible Years parenting book as an alternative version of Parent Management Training.
(By the West Coast, I think she may just mean U of Washington. She probably means some specific universities on the East Coast. Overall, I don't think that geographic bifurcation holds.)
"My work is a synthesis of my origins on the East Coast, where the psycho-dynamic was pervasive, and my life here on the West Coast where there is a tradition of behaviorism. In the late 1970s barricades separated the two approaches. But I didn't see it like that. Of course, we can learn effective behavioral strategies, but we have to recognize feelings and emotions."
https://www.incredibleyears.com/blog/news/incredible-journey-cws-prevention-action
In a previous comment, I recommended the Incredible Years parenting book as an alternative version of Parent Management Training.
(By the West Coast, I think she may just mean U of Washington. She probably means some specific universities on the East Coast. Overall, I don't think that geographic bifurcation holds.)
aquariusmediaaseo
New member
@acuriousgirl I had a challenging 3/3.5 year old, but she’s coming around at 4. Maybe give it time? 3.5 is rough as some others have voiced. Also, I read Good Inside by Dr Becky Kennedy and honestly she’s helped us have a mental shift. Her parenting ideas helped while we were in the throes of tantrums.
@acuriousgirl It all depends what you want to optimize your parenting for.
The Yale ABA course is not really evidence based in terms of long term outcomes.
Check out “Raising a Secure Child” and “Whole Brain Child” if you want to parent with the long game in mind.
The Yale ABA course is not really evidence based in terms of long term outcomes.
Check out “Raising a Secure Child” and “Whole Brain Child” if you want to parent with the long game in mind.
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