Expectations with triple feeding

@filips LC here! Hi mama, first off - you’re doing an amazing job sorting through all this!

Second - I think you’ve received some crappy advice. Losing 9% of birth weight would never been a reason I’d recommend supplementing with formula. Up to 10% is normal, and especially after a C section where they pump you full of fluids (which artificially inflate baby’s birth weight before they pee it all out), that wouldn’t have been cause for alarm for me. And when we recommend supplementing, it should always be with mom’s milk first. The advice to not pump early on is good for moms with well-established supplies, but for moms with low supply, we absolutely want them pumping to bring their supply in. I pumped from day 1 with my little one! Also, 20ml for a mom in the early days isn’t what I’d consider low supply, but I’m not sure when you got that measurement.

This is how triple feeding always should work: baby feeds, mom pumps, someone (ideally dad) feeds baby the milk mom pumped from the last pumping session via bottle. Only if baby is still showing crazy hunger cues does baby then get formula.

How many times per day are you getting baby to stay latched for a feed? If baby is staying latched, you hear swallowing, your breasts feel less full, and baby is looking satisfied after the feeding (relaxed hands, falling asleep, not rooting or crying), that counts as a good feeding. If you pump directly after that, it’s not super surprising that you wouldn’t get much if baby drained your breast!

I think the best case scenario here is you feeding on demand for several days and trying to cut out that formula. What happens when baby gets formula top-offs is that the formula sits in their stomach longer (harder to digest), they want the breast less often, your breasts get less stimulation, and your supply drops. Before your next appointment, I’d recommend the following:

1) Offer the breast every single time he shows anything that looks like a feeding cue. Stirring/rooting, crying, lip smacking, anything… offer the boob. Focus on keeping him alert, but it’s very normal for a fed baby to fall asleep at the breast. Supply is driven by frequency of feedings rather than length of feedings, so if you offer the breast 20 times in a day, that’s not an issue for establishing your milk supply. It will help. Night feedings are also great for your supply.
2) As many times as you can handle sustainably on full-time baby duty, pump for 10 min, but wait to do it until 30 min after a feeding. Don’t do it right afterwards. This will give you time to offer a bottle if baby seems hungry after he’s on the breast and a little time for your breasts to refill as well. If after you pump, you’re able to hand express anything, that means your pump isn’t draining you well, and you need to reevaluate flange size.
3) Dont offer formula unless you’re out of pumped breastmilk, you’ve offered the breast recently, and baby is showing big feeding cues. You may be nervous about this, but between the nursing and pumping, there’s zero reason to believe that your body can’t produce enough milk for your child. It’s baby’s job to bring your milk supply in, and your body will rise to the occasion. If you give baby a bunch of formula, that’s not helping your supply.

Also, when you’re doing this all alone, throw those pump parts in the fridge in a plastic bag between sessions - don’t need to wash them between every feeding. Wash them once a day.

If baby is having latch issues, that’s something to get addressed ASAP, but the pumping should help keep and grow your supply. My guess is that you’re not pumping much because you’re doing it right after a feeding and that baby is sleepy as heck because you’re essentially giving him a full feeding of formula on top of every nursing session!
 
@imsavedbyjesus Thank you so much for responding!

So the goal is to absolutely get to a point where we’re only supplementing with my expressed breastmilk, but I only make enough to do it every other or third feed. We use the formula when we don’t have enough milk left.

Regarding hunger cues, he’s very tough to read. Once we slept through our night feed alarm and went almost six hours and he didn’t wake us up at all (which hopefully bodes well for his sleep training in future? Silver lining lol) but he sleeps a LOT and when he’s alert I always offer boob first to try and get in a more alert feed since he’s so often not awake. The majority of feeds require us waking him up every 2-3 hours, trying to get him alert then feeding.

Our triple feeding is always both breasts, no more than 15 min each, (he latched much better on the right than left. He really struggles with the left for some reason) and then he gets a bottle from my husband while I pump for 15.

Do you think it’s ok to go longer between feeds? I’ve been trying to tie his feeds to the pumping schedule so it’s reliably every two hours, but he’s up past his birth weight now (was 7-9, was 7-12.5 at 17 days old) so if you think it’s ok to lengthen his feeds (while offering the boob at any hunger cues) while still pumping every 2 hours I can try that.

I have tried power pumping but can only get in 20 on 10 off 10 on before it’s time to let my breasts rest for 20 min before feeding him again.

I got that measurement from the first weighted feed at the LC office of 20ml on my left and 12ml on my right on Tuesday when cal was 16 days old.
 
@filips I think what I’m trying to communicate is that it makes more sense for you to re-offer the breast if you’re not feeling completely empty than to offer formula. If you nurse, feed some pumped milk, and then let baby sit for a bit, if he’s hungry 20 minutes later, re-offer the breast. I think people get in this anxious cycle with formula where they’re giving baby a formula bottle out of fear that baby won’t have enough to eat (even if they’re not showing hunger cues!), and what this does is basically ensure that mom’s breasts won’t produce enough. So, even if you have to pump less often and even if baby is cluster feeding all day, if you can try a few days without formula at all (or with dramatically less formula), that will be excellent for your milk supply. Based on what you’re describing, it sounds like baby is possibly overfed on formula, and your supply is slowly decreasing as a result. A 3 week old breastfed baby is usually cluster feeding on many days, wanting to eat 8-10 times or more, and always hungry. This is normal and expected bc their little bodies are designed to bring in mom’s milk supply.

I absolutely would not go longer between feeds. Breastfeeding or pumping 8+ times a day is really important for your supply in the first 6 weeks.

If this all makes you nervous, I’d just recommend you reflect on why you’re giving the formula bottles - based on what you’re describing, it sounds like baby isn’t showing hunger cues, so it might be more driven from fear than anything else.

Also, if he’s not alert much, you can offer the breast while baby is asleep. Look up dream feeding!
 
@filips I had a similar experience for the first couple weeks home. Everything was just super delayed because of my c section and a slightly early, inefficient nursing baby. I kept at it with the triple feeding until baby regained birthweight (at two weeks appt) and then started feeding on demand but pumping a few times a day as well. I didn’t pump anything meaningful until around 17-18 days PP, I started getting maybe an ounce and a half and then it slowly kept increasing. Now if I pump to replace a feed I usually get 5-6 ounces, with some outliers that are higher. If I pump after a feed I usually get 2-3 ounces. I’m told this is a normal/healthy supply. I would try to stick with it a bit longer if you can and see if your volumes keep rising, it’s still early.

ETA Pumping Tips: massaging before pumping, putting some lubricant (like coconut oil) in the flange helps with friction, and lightly massaging/pressing down from your chest toward the pump helps increase output for me.
 
@filips I'm sorry you're struggling. BF can be so hard (it didn't "click" for us until maybe 6 weeks). My LO had a weak suck and a tongue thrust. It was a turning point when she started taking a pacifier around 3-4 weeks because it strengthened her mouth muscles and we could do "suck training" (gently pull at the pacifier while she's sucking to challenge her hold, practice for 30-60 seconds a few times a day).

Also, I get much better output with my Lansinoh manual handpump than Spectra S2. The handpump is slow but I think it more realistically mimics a baby's suck. It's about $25 on Amazon. Maymom sells compatible flanges on Amazon so you can order your correct size.

I hope this helps!
 
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