Don't be discouraged by all the rosy posts on this sub

[lesnock]

This sub includes a preponderance of posts that sound like this: My baby didn't sleep, I had no idea about sleep training, then I discovered it, implemented it, and on the third night they tucked themself in and slept twelve hours. Now I have my life back.

If that's you, I'm happy. But I asked in a post "How long did it take you to sleep train?" and the results were this: 32% said 1-3 days, 24% said 4-7 days, 19% said 8-14 days, 19% said 14-21 days and 5% said more than 21 days. Admittedly this is a very unscientific study, but it suggests that even among the community of this sub the above narrative is far from typical.

In 'real' life, there's a lot of pressure to hide the negative aspects of parenting, and it creates a sort of Emperor's New Clothes situation wherein everyone tries to conform to a positive image that is, in effect, just the sum total of everyone else's attempt to project a positive image. I suspect this drive is so strong that it even seeps into anonymous-ish online spaces like Reddit. It's like the opposite of restaurant reviews, which skew negative.

So here's my own experience with sleep training, which was neither amazing nor horrible, and which will probably tell you nothing about how your baby will respond...

We had done Precious Little Sleep's graduated extinction, then Ferber cry it out, and both resulted in 45 minutes of scream-crying and pooping with no progress over 5 nights. Then at 6+ months we switched to Happy Sleeper sleep wave and had much more success. Here's the data:

• Night 1: 14 minutes to fall asleep, 2 night wakings
• Night 2: 25 minutes to fall asleep, 3 night wakings
• Night 3: 17 minutes to fall asleep, 2 night wakings
• Night 4: 26 minutes to fall asleep, 1 night waking
• Night 5: 4 minutes to fall asleep, 1 night waking [No crying, it's working!]
• Night 6: 7 minutes to fall asleep, 2 night wakings
• Night 7: 9 minutes to fall asleep, 1 night waking
• Night 8: 9 minutes to fall asleep, 2 night wakings
• Night 9: 3 minutes to fall asleep, 1 night waking
• Night 10: 2 minutes to fall asleep, 1 night waking
• Night 11: 2 minutes to fall asleep, 1 night waking [In a groove!]
• Night 12: 11 minutes to fall asleep, 0 night wakings
• Night 13: 3 minutes to fall asleep, 0 night wakings
• Night 14: 50 minutes to fall asleep, 5 night wakings [WTF?]

So is there a trend? Sure, and it is a very encouraging one. But any trend line would have to be drawn from a very zoomed-out perspective, and there would be data points that are very, very far from the trend line. Nights 1-4 were hell, and they involved tears from everyone. Night 5 was a shock. Nights 6-11 convinced us we were done. Night 12 was harder than nights 1-4 because it pulled the carpet from under out feet. Night 13 was a sigh of relief. On night 14 we broke down and made appointments with our therapists.

I came away from sleep training feeling about the same as I did going in: it's probably necessary, it's not fun, when it 'works' it means things are better but not always great. It's fine. I'm not happy I did it. But I'm not mad either. A strange combination of grateful and bitter.

N.B. If you are inclined to respond to my data with suggestions about wake windows, bedtimes, etc, please don't. Glad to discuss anything else.

 

[stefnee]

@lesnock This post is so underrated. Bless you. I love it when people post facts & are REAL about their experiences parenting. I honestly feel gaslit when talking to the avg person about their kid bc they wont say anything negative.. which makes you feel like you're doing something terribly wrong. Thank you for the data!!!

 

[elijahangel]

@lesnock Different things work for different people and their babies. So I agree, people jump on the Ferber method or the TCB program thinking 'wow it worked for X, it will work for me'

I did not traditionally sleep train, no crying, but did pick up and put back down with singing.. I follow strict wake windows too. And I get simular pattern as yours.. 1-3 wakes a night, takes about 10 mins to fall asleep independently. But this was after 3.5 months hourly wake ups since the 4 month sleep regression. Don't get me wrong, we still have our trouble times since 6 teeth started to erupt at once, we got sick, learning to walk etc.

I think that's another thing always missed from these success stories. Babies are not going to sleep through the night all the time after you sleep train, there will be times where they are more hungry, thirsty, development, teething, sickness and so on.

 

[firebrand4him]

@lesnock What is happy sleeper sleep wave? Asking for a friend…

 

[piano1962]

@firebrand4him It is all outlined in the book The Happy Sleeper, but essentially you go in every 5 minutes of full on crying and repeat your script. You don't touch them or comfort them. You say your script and leave. That way you are like a wave, constantly coming. They know you are there and can fall asleep knowing you are outside the door.

 

[oneanddone]

@lesnock I super appreciate sharing this as someone who on the fence trained but ultimately decided to tend to my baby during her wakes until my husband helped night wean her around 1 yo.

I feel like there’s not enough acknowledgement that this shit is hard and it’s NOT for everyone, and no two experiences will look the same. I see a lot of “how long did yours cry on night x” as though babies have a schedule they receive on the way out of the womb. Like you, I wasn’t mad I tried sleep training but I wasn’t happy. Butter is a good word. I did everything by the book and my kid still needed night comforting and I decided I’d do it until I felt in my gut that we both could go without it. And though I was waking with her, I felt a weight lifted. And she’s a great sleeper, it just happened on her time. Another thing - toddlers brainwash you. I already forget how hard some nights were or what age it got easier or how skilled I was with the crib transfer. I think anyone who hasn’t had a kid within the past 5 years can’t relate to parents of newborns on sleep

 

[firemed]

@lesnock We sleep trained both kids. Both took to it very very differently. It was certainly not a silver bullet. They go through developmental leaps that mess with sleep. Just wait until your kids turn 2.5/3ish. All the sleep training in the world didn’t help us then.

If there’s one thing that did work, it was consistency. Yes wake windows. Yes no sleep crutches etc etc. But having a similar schedule every day really helped to get sleep training to “take”.

 

[octavio]

@lesnock YES. It took about 2 weeks for things to be somewhat better, but it was several months before we had absolutely no crying at bedtime and no random EMWs (not schedule related). And I am an extreme rule follower (to a fault, tbh)—so I followed WWs and our ST program to a T, meaning the issue wasn’t with inconsistent implementation.

I’m so glad we sleep trained, and we saw improvement early on, but it was in no way a magic fix. Glad you posted this.

 

[shatter94]

@octavio We literally have never had no crying at bedtime when mine was younger I think that was just how she fell asleep. Even months after she was fully sleep trained she'd cry for 2-5 minutes and be out. Then she became a.gremling 2 year old and cries because she doesn't want to go to bed

 

[ryspi76]

@shatter94 My child is a year old and we sleep trained at 5 months. We still have crying at bedtime nearly every night. Normally it's 2-5 minutes. Occasionally it's 10-15.

 

[flowersontherubbishheap]

@lesnock We started sleep training at 4.5 months and are nearly 10 months now. When looking back at where we were then and where we are now, the improvement is clear and drastic, and I’m happy we did the sleep training. I was at a breaking point and something had to change, so I don’t regret doing it.

However, the journey has not been linear and even now there are rough nights that I question if it’s worth it. We’re mostly down to 0-1 wakings now, which I am happy/can live with. But honestly when we started sleep training I 100% thought we would be consistently at 0 wakings much sooner (like within a few weeks maximum). The “sleep training is a magic solution” narrative is very much overplayed and not true, at least in our case.

 

[worshiplady3]

@lesnock This thread is awesome and makes me feel so much better. I never wanted to sleep train (just personal preference) and my hubby is really starting to get on my case because our bub is 9 MO and sleep has been a roller coaster and mostly disastrous. Some periods have been decent but we are in the trenches with the 8-10 regression right now and can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don’t think it would make much of a difference to ST or not

 

[josh261995]

@lesnock We sleep trained 1.5m ago and still have nights that are a pain in the ass. Last night he woke at 3am, fed him, changed him and back to bed then randomly screamed for 45 mins? Out of the ordinary. Come to find in the morning he had done a massive poo and had a tooth cut the bad nights seem never ending with so much going on!

And all of the suggestions suck too. When to give food/how much food/how much protein/how long to nap/how long to awake/nap transitions/teething remedies/crawling/sitting/standing regressions. It’s impossible to know what the problem is most of the time!

 

[tlnd]

@lesnock I sleep trained twice, but eventually my baby wakes again throughout the night (teething, sleep regressions, etc). It’s never been a linear journey. She’s 11 months and some weeks she’s a good sleeper and some not. Just trying to roll with the punches at this point.

Thanks for the post, I appreciate the honesty and all the data

 

[heatherbliss]

@lesnock Thank you I spent a lot of time feeling like sh*t thinking I could find the magical formula to make my oldest have decent sleep. Which is essentially blaming myself for not trying. Spoiler alert it's not my fault, she is a very alert personality that takes a lot to wind down. Redding about everyone magically going to sleep after 3 nights of extinction made me feel like something was wrong.

 

[reyma]

@heatherbliss Is the realisation that your oldest is super alert only discovered in hindsight or when she got older, ie, toddlerhood? I’m still trying to figure out what temperament my baby has and whether or not there is a direct correlation to her sleep.

 

[heatherbliss]

@reyma We suspected. Trust your gut! If your kid takes a lot to go to bed and is at the low end of nightly sleep, I'd go ahead and assume they have this temperament. If they are a preemie wait a bit to make any conclusions because their tummy is probably too small IMHO

 

[gesile]

@lesnock We haven't even started sleeping training and I thank you for writing this.

 

[finnfierro]

@gesile Me too. We’re having a rough time and all these posts make me feel like we’re “just 3 nights of agonizing crying and going against my gut to perfect sleep!”

Don’t get me wrong, I think I will still need to sleep train. But I’m not there yet and I think having high expectations might not help the process. Thanks OP!

 

[startemple]

@lesnock We tried Ferber for one night. He cried for over an hour. Then slept for 30 minutes. And then screamed for 3 hours where we attempted CIO. It was a disaster. I brought him back into bed to cosleep after that. Since that night, we give him a big bottle before bed instead of breastfeeding. Then he gets put down in his bassinet. He puts himself to sleep, no crying. He can’t connect his sleep cycles right now so he’s crying in his sleep every 45 minutes and by midnight we’re cosleeping but we’re getting somewhere.

The response from everyone is always “oh you need to fix your wake windows” or “he needs bedtime earlier/later” or “his naps are too long/short”. The truth is, we’re all just guessing.