Turning 30, thinking about quitting law school after my first semester to start a family. Advice?

[ladyghosthunter]

We are so ready to start our family and we want 4-5 kids if possible.

However, I am in my first semester of law school and I wouldn’t want to get pregnant until after summer 2024 when I’ve finished 2 years of school and completed 2 summer externships. I would be okay getting pregnant the beginning of my 3rd year. But I would be 32 when we have our first.

Prior to law school work experience: political campaigns.

But at the same time, I don’t want to wait that long! I know in the grand scheme of things waiting 2 years may not be a huge deal and it gives me a J.D.

Fortunately my husband does well so we are good off his salary. But the only concern of mine is the feeling of not having a purpose outside of my kids. I feel like having my JD will be empowering whether I choose to practice as an attorney or just go the JD advantage route.

My mom was a doctor, but then spent 12 years as a SAHM, then went back to work. Her advice was that it’s important to have an identity outside of being a mom because your kids will form their own identities and it won’t be centered around you.

My MIL never worked and was SAHM. Her sons are both reaching 30 now and she’s 55. Her identity is solely focused around being a mom but it’s tough now because both her children are grown men with their own partners/family. She seems to be struggling and resorts to drinking heavily.

I know everyone is different, but from the women I personally know who have SAHM, they tend to struggle with purpose/identity later in life when the kids leave. This is what is holding me back from leaving law school and starting a family. But I can also see myself being super happy going this route if leaving school, starting a family and loving it for 10-13 years, but once everyone is a teen and in their own world, I could feel lost.

How are you planning for this?

I know everyone is so different, but any advice/shared experiences would be helpful!

 

[fortruth73]

@ladyghosthunter It sounds like you have a lot to consider with this decision! So just one situation I know is I have a friend who finished law school and then had a baby and regrets finishing law school because now she just wants to be a stay at home mom but can’t afford it because of debt from school. Would finishing law school effect your finances and the option to be a stay at home mom?

I only have an almost two year old so I can’t speak to how I’ll feel when she is older but I can say, of course my identity has changed and I don’t think it would matter if I worked or not. Becoming a mom is a completely different experience than I’ve ever had before and it is life altering. I DO think you need to give most of yourself in those early years because they do truly need you. I am finally starting to feel more like myself and I still want to be me. I still love to read and hang out with friends and go to art galleries and travel. Having a child does reduce the amount of times I get to do that but I think once she becomes more independent I’ll be able to explore my interests more again and I realize she will grow up and it doesn’t matter if I’m working or not I’ll always miss her being little but I can say I will never regret spending this time with her. My mother in law who got her PhD and worked full time while her kids were growing up recently told me she regrets not spending more time with her children when they were little. That is one regret I never want to have. Sorry for rambling but If you do want to start having children now and be a STAHP but you’re worried about after, you can always go back to school once you feel like you have more free time again when they are in school. It is such a hard decision but I LOVE being a stay at home parent. Mornings are relaxing and my daughter always has me to come to.

 

[ladyghosthunter]

@fortruth73 Aww this is so sweet

 

[bluecomet]

@ladyghosthunter I'm also a lawyer and have some thoughts. First of all, for what its worth, I went to a TTTT school and finished right around the middle of my class. I currently make $250k per year and work 50-60 hours per week, plus I get benefits, 401k, equity grants, etc. Strength of law school really only matters if you want to teach law or work Biglaw but, frankly, Biglaw is tough for women and tough for parents, plus generally Biglaw favors K-JDs since they are going to work them 100+ hours per week for the first 5 years.

I also have trouble relating to your mother-in-law. I'm obviously no longer a SAHP, but even now my identity revolves mostly around my kids. Why shouldn't it? Work is meaningless... what do I do all day? Edit papers so someone can bill someone else monthly for the next two years? Wow, 50 years from now these redlines are really going to matter I'm sure! No way, I'm going to raise my kids, watch them grow, enjoy my relationship with them, and when they are older, I'll enjoy watching them start their lives, hopefully their own families, and one day maybe have grand kids... If I need an identity outside my kids, I'll develop my own hobbies, thoughts, feelings, etc. What greater gift in life do I have than to make sure my children are the best versions of themselves they can be?

All prospective law students should look up and review two pieces of information. First, is actual lawyer salaries. Lawyer salaries have a bimodal distribution, which means that there are sort of two clusters - those making very high salaries and those making very low salaries, with few in between. Sure, the average first year lawyer salary might be a very respectable $60k, but you have 10 people making $225k bringing up the 70 people making $40k. Is the debt worth it? Many would probably say no.

The other item that all prospective students should review is the Harvard "How much do you need to work to hit your billables?" Most lawyers get paid by the billable hour, so your firm may have a target of 1,700 per year. That is 32.6 hours per week over 52 weeks. Let's say you take a 1 week vacation and miss another week due to children illnesses etc. Now we are up to 34 hours per week. Now, keep in mind that the most efficient lawyers don't bill more than 80% of their time, meaning to get 34 hours per week you need to be in the office at least 40 per week. Now consider that your commute doesn't count, nor does your lunch, nor do any doctor appointments... Keep in mind that 1,700 hours per year is considered low... most are 1800 and up, or what firms will do is say, sure, 1,700 hours for $75k, to get your $50k annual bonus you need 2,000 hours.

Being a lawyer is also not at all fun. It is very, very high stress. It also is almost always adversarial. And its boring... I have a "fun" lawyer job and I spend nearly all my day reading terms and conditions, answering technical emails, and then getting told I'm not working fast enough.

The reason I say this is that people think being a lawyer is what you see on TV and instead its mostly drudgery and stress. There is a reason alcoholism is rampant in the legal field.

But you asked about law school. Law school is great. You just learn, that's it. The only problem is that it is very time consuming and expensive.

I said at the outset that I went to a TTTT school, right? In my class we had a woman with a year old and a 3 year old who was a "stay at home mom." We had one woman who dropped her last kid off at college and started law school. We had a guy who was a teacher for 7 years and decided he wanted another challenge. We had a woman become pregnant end of 1L year and stayed in school. It can absolutely be done... but you might have to drop the "stay at home parent" label because you can expect to be at school 4 days a week. I used to be on campus from 7am until 4pm Monday through Thursday, 7 until like 2 on Fridays, and then I'd be in 8 until noon each Saturday. I spent a lot of Sundays at a local law library too, and there were countless days when I was there until 9-10 pm. This was before kids, obviously, so I might make different choices today, but I also didn't get stellar grades even with all that effort.

 

[annakorp]

@ladyghosthunter One thing to think of too is that you'll never know as much as when you pass the bar. So if you graduate and take the bar, get licensed, and then.... Take a decade off for family... It may be pretty difficult to start your career that long after graduation/licensure. You'd have to relearn a lot of stuff. It'll work better, both financially and career-wise, to take your family break now and then catch up on school and career later.

 

[%E2%A0%80%E2%A0%80%E2%97%87]

@annakorp But on the flip side, to keep your licensure you have to take continuing legal education every year. Also, you don’t know how to practice law when you pass the bar and have to learn on the job, and that will happen whether you do it immediately or in a few years. It might be harder to get a job, but once you have your first job there will be a learning curve either way.

 

[nameholder]

@ladyghosthunter Definitely cross post to the r/workingmoms sub you will get a different perspective. I’m an engineer who is currently a SAHM. I’m excited to have something to go back to when my kids (currently just one) are older but I love being home with my son right now. Just a thought if you finish law school you might want to work for a while to establish yourself. It might be hard jumping back into law if you were never a practicing lawyer, so that would either postpone children or your SAHM dreams. I’m not too worried about finding an engineering job again but I worked as an engineer for 8 years, I have great connections and references, and I’m doing some things on the side to stay ‘fresh’ in the field.

 

[panagiotism]

@ladyghosthunter My grandma was a sahm and I’d say she has done really well with kids being out of the house. My mom is the youngest and is 45 so it’s been Awhile. She was heavily involved with her grandkids, she volunteered at the local library, she had the best garden in the town, she reads 3 books a week, goes out to eat with a different family member every other week or so, has a few friends although now many have passed. I guess my point is you don’t need a job to have an identity or a sense of purpose, she has probably been the most influential person in my life because she actually had time for me.

 

[qbanmom7070]

@ladyghosthunter I'm not a professional anything but I am a sahm with a bachelors degree I got and never used!

4-5 kids is a lot and as someone else said, that's about 10 years being pregnant if you space them pretty close together. I don't know what kind of age gaps you prefer. You also might have a hard time being pregnant. You also don't know what life is going to be like after one kid! You may be one and done! There's so many unknowns. I know several people who spoke enthusiastically about having five kids and then once reality sets in they realize it's one or just two...

For me the deciding question is this: will you be going into debt for this law degree?

If yes, then how will you pay it off if you don't work? And why take out loans for a degree you don't plan on using for 10 years? What's the point? If your husband's job can handle your needs and bills, get life insurance and start on your family.

If no, then it won't matter if you don't work. Get your degree if it's something you know you will regret not doing and if it will make you happy.

I guess I just wonder what will motivate you to finish law school if you know you're just going to start a family and not a career after graduating?

Also, as many others said, lots of people are totally happy with themselves without tying their identity to their careers. I'm one of them. A degree on your wall isn't going to fulfill you.

Best of luck to you!

 

[thimbleberry]

@ladyghosthunter I am not a lawyer, but I do have a Master's in Public Health. I have a few thoughts here:

You absolutely do not need a graduate level+ degree to have an identity outside motherhood. In fact, I think most happy people do not tie their identities to their careers. As an example, my mom was a social worker before becoming a SAHM. She returned to work part time in admin when my sister and I were in elementary school. Though she didn't return to her original career, she ended up managing the office of an architect (another passion of hers), and she was/is an active leader in our community, serving on many boards and councils. She has never not been busy. There was never an "empty nest, what do I do?" phase. The grass is greener where you water it, if you nurture your identity outside of motherhood, you won't have the issue your MIL has.

If you are planning on a large family, and aren't passionate about practicing law, does it even make sense to spend the time, effort, and money to get the JD? With 4-5 kids, safe spacing between pregnancies, that's a minimum of 10 years of just being pregnant. Then another 5-6 years waiting for the youngest to be in elementary school, if being a SAHM is your goal. That's assuming everything goes perfectly smoothly, which is possible, not not certain.

I finished my degree in 2016 and became a SAHM in 2018. I wish I had had longer to work in my field before having kids. I am passionate about my field, and I do hope to go back to it, but I will almost certainly be able to make more money in an adjacent field. We'll have to weigh those options when the time comes, but I may not end up ever working in the role I envisioned when I got my degree. I am okay with that, but if I could go back in time I might have made different choices. I love my field, I loved grad school, but I have about $50K in debt from that. Life right now would certainly be simpler without that debt. I will say that all of my friends from grad school who are currently working moms always knew that that was what they wanted, being a SAHM was never a desire for them. I always knew I wanted to SAH when my kids were young. It might have been easier to skip the degree and go straight into parenting, but I also LOVED school and enjoyed getting my degree. If you're not loving your program, and aren't passionate about the field, what's the benefit to you, not even in the future, but now?

Sorry this turned into a novel! But I think you need to really consider what you want out of the childbearing/rearing years of your life, and worry about your empty nest later - you don't need a specific degree to be empowered or happy. And you also don't need to be a SAHM if you don't want to! Just because your mom and MIL did, doesn't mean you have to.

 

[tk321]

@ladyghosthunter Ultimately, you're the one who has to live with you're decision. For what its worth though, 30 is cutting it biologically very close, maybe unlikely for 4-5 kids. What if you have fertility issues? Complications go up significantly after 35, they call them geriatric pregnancies. That doesn't mean that there will be complications but it does mean that complications are more likely. I started at 29 and I really regret waiting so long. I had major Hang-Ups about quitting my job, but it's the best thing I have done. ( full disclosure: I do work a couple of hours a week at a unicorn job from home mostly. Just for fun.)
You can always get another job, maybe not a fancy one but something. You could also volunteer or join a civic group. Your self worth/identity doesn't have to come from a job.

On the other hand fostering/adoption is also a thing. Different challenges than having your own, but can really change a kids life.

One thing that really makes the difference, the focus really needs to be on the family unit. The money coming in is the family's, not his or hers. Fun money needs to be budgeted of course, but don't make things transactional.

 

[scottyboyyy]

@ladyghosthunter I think because of what has happened the last couple of years, someone's identity won't be tied to work later in life as well as SAHP will be more respected. If this is something you want to do and will make you happy then go for it and wait till after. Not knowing your financial situation but taking on a bunch a debt just to then have a kid doesn't sound 100% since student loans wont go away any time soon. My perspective tho is biased as my parents both went to college when I was in middle school, Dad used GI bill and Mom dropped out first year of college when she was 18. Mom had me at 29 and is still super focused on her career today post college. So it's never too late to go back to school after kids as well and might be easier to handle than such a large gap. There is also nothing that says you can't do both either and graduate while being a parent!

 

[comikid338]

@ladyghosthunter For me, going to law school, taking the bar, and starting a legal career with a young baby would be extraordinarily stressful and it wouldn’t be worth the expense or mental toll just for the sake of forming an identity outside of motherhood. Since you want a large family, I would prioritize your fertile years to do that. Absolutely take time for yourself, but maybe through a part-time or full-time job in the political sphere or volunteer work. Then, when they’re older and in school, go to law school and get that JD. Life is long and you can do anything you want, just not all at the same time. All the love and best wishes for you and your family!

 

[myles0]

@ladyghosthunter i can share my personal experience/journey in case that helps you in any way. i was a lawyer for 7 years and then quit to be a sahm. it took me the entire 7 years making between 160k and 260k per year to pay off my loans (i also made a few investments along the way, but those student loans at a 7% interest rate were brutal and i paid them off pretty aggressively). so the financial aspect is the main factor in my opinion. those student loans balloon and it's horrible paying them off.

fwiw i went to a top school and worked in biglaw. i liked it at first in my mid 20s, as an ambitious recent grad. by my 5th year or so i was pretty over it, but kept working for financial reasons. after i had my first child, in 2020, i had my maternity leave and then quit a few months later. i personally found it impossible to balance motherhood and career. i was missing deadlines, and it was very stressful. now i have a second baby and am not sure whether i will ever be a lawyer again. i don't think my old options will ever be open to me again, so i'd have to figure out a new type of legal career for my comeback. i am still keeping my certifications up to date just so that i always have the option to return to practicing law. we'll see. the main thing i disliked is it's such a grind, so many details, so many deadlines, so much responsibility. maybe when my kids are older i can take on a career again, but for now i find motherhood to be overwhelming as it is.

anyway it's a personal choice and that's just my story. i would just be very very leery about taking on the student loans if i were you bc they will be very difficult to pay off and you could basically be stuck with a career in law, which you might regret after becoming a mom. not trying to be negative, just being real. i do know there are plenty of lawyers who are moms, i just personally couldnt deal! anyway best of luck and sorry for the novel!

 

[katrina2017]

@ladyghosthunter

But the only concern of mine is the feeling of not having a purpose outside of my kids. I feel like having my JD will be empowering whether I choose to practice as an attorney or just go the JD advantage route.

Think about what is it that you really want. Do you really want to go to law school and have a career in law or do you want to pursue raising a family more. Is getting your degree something that is important to you or is it something you feel you should have? If you know what you want and you are happy with your decision, you will not have regrets or fell purposeless. But you must do what it truly is that you want to do and not what you think society/friends/family wants you to do.

I have multiple degrees. That fact doesn't help with the struggle of "feeling like I don't have a purpose". It may be different for everyone. I personally struggle with this from time to time. Especially when we're stuck in the house because everyone is sick.

Yes, you can go to school in between kids and maybe you'll decide to go back to school despite your kids being little (your view may change after having children). However, it is very hard and and added stress to go back to school when the kids are little. Especially if you don't have a support system. It's doable, but definitely not easy.

My life experience has taught me that earning your degree before you have kids is the most ideal. You can earn your degree then focus on your family until your ready to start your career.

Again, I have to emphasize that you may change your mind about everything after having children. Also, I don't wish this on anyone, but staying realistic; you don't know how your babies will come to you. It could take some time to get pregnant, you could get pregnant right away, you could have multiples, which might change your spacing of children, etc. There are so many factors that can change the outcome.

Think about what it is YOU truly want.

 

[jesusislord93]

@ladyghosthunter I would recommend waiting on further schooling until your kids are older. You may have completely different interests after raising them so to me it reads as a waste of resources (time + money) especially if you have kids with medical needs that extra money can make a huge difference.

I have an EdD that I got prior to kids and sometimes wish I would have just gone straight to kids and picked a program after my SAHM life. I won't be going into education as planned previously. But I learned a lot and it shaped who I am today so not an overall loss.

 

[joel_mutua]

@ladyghosthunter If you finish your schooling you have options, if you don't it was just money down the tube. You can always pick up your degree, dust it off and use it or put it on the shelf. But if you never get it, you don't have the options you would have if you did.

I think gaining an identity is something a lot of people need to do in their mid-life, regardless of prior schooling, job, children, volunteer work or hobbies. I think it's part of a growing up that happens (or doesn't and people may feel left behind.)

no one can tell you what you should do, which is the hard part of being an adult, I think. Good luck

 

[joiner007]

@joel_mutua As someone in menopause, I can say midlife is a period of reflection and redefining yourself: I read that a lot on r/menopause:

 

[ayodun22]

@ladyghosthunter You don’t really sound all in for law school. Why take on all that debt just because you are worried about an identity crisis in the future. Sahp here… I had plans for a big career and am surrounded by highly educated friends/ family etc. At the end of the day this is the best fit for our family and it works out… husband has a demanding job so regardless a lot would fall on me anyway. I think people have different coping skills and how you handle your life as kids get older depends on your personality…. I have plenty to keep me busy that’s not job related. The comments about wasting my education used to bother me but I think alot if that comes from jealousy and ignorance, sahp is SO hard in its own way and our culture is so used to shipping out childcare onto others that we don’t value it like we used to.

 

[douglofgren]

@ladyghosthunter I’m gonna be honest, either you’re gonna have the 3-4 kids you want, starting now and be a stay at home mom or you’ll be a working mom for the next ten years then try to cram in a baby last minute before your biological clock runs out and you won’t be nearly as present or emotionally connected to that baby and they baby will be able to sense that and it’ll cause issues for them down the long run. This is what happened to my husband. His mother very clearly wanted to be a dr and put her career first. Then at 40 decided oh wait I do wanna be a mom and now my husband has medical issues that wouldn’t have occurred had his mother not been so selfish. It’s okay to want motherhood. It’s okay to want a career. But at your age it’ll be very hard to have both and not be damaging the child in the end. That’s just my opinion.