Toddler loves pushing my newly walking baby and I feel lost

[sbjk]

@diademjewel Depending on how much space you have to work with, you can get one of those baby play pen type things and either the baby is in there and it's the baby's safe space or the toddler goes in there and the baby isnt "allowed" in.

We dont have a ton of space to work with but we did move our couch away from the wall and put the nugget couch pieces at either end to prevent the baby from going in. Toddler has their own safe space to play away from the baby

 

[flameofakatosh]

@diademjewel I would definitely set up a baby safe area where you’re able to be with baby and toddler is left out. Pushing baby means LESS time with mom and that baby gets more attention. He can observe you interacting with babe but will not be able to lean on you, check on baby or get attention for hugging/kissing baby . Humans are social animals and are highly sensitive to be left out.

 

[sunsetrose]

@diademjewel Does he enjoy being around/playing with little bro?

If so, there’s your consequence. He doesn’t get to play with him for the rest of the afternoon/morning or similar. But it needs to be something he values.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity - he’s clearly not learning. You need to up the ante, make it worth it to him to stop.

Clarity of communication, consistency in actions and repetition are the keys to discipline.

 

[jesusislord16]

@diademjewel I would add something along the lines of "it's my job to keep you and baby safe. If you push baby again then..." and choose a logical consequence that he'll be motivated to avoid, like being removed from playing near the baby

 

[diademjewel]

@jesusislord16 When I have done a “time out” he just would push the baby and then run to his timeout spot. I don’t have any space where I can have them both in my view but also separated. Is there something else you might suggest?

 

[agnosticguest]

@diademjewel Gentle parenting doesn’t mean no consequences

 

[kjones]

@diademjewel We had and continue to have big brother/big boy talks which help a lot. We place a strong emphasis on taking care of things like our bodies, our toys, our home, and each other. We have pets and a garden that we take care of. We emphasize gentle hands and try to call out and appreciate when he is gentle.

At 2.5 yours might be too young but I have also had ours do time outs starting at about 3. It was mainly a way to safely separate them to tend to one first then debrief with the other. I found I have to end play briefly or else he won’t really be discouraged from shoving. We talk about times when someone hit or shoved or grabbed a toy from him and how he felt. If it was an accident then I ask him to think of a way to help baby sister feel better or next time how to make sure we all stay safe (by giving each other space). It’s possible also that yours is just excited and wants to interact with baby. We have tried to encourage gentle or distance based ways to interact like soft hugs or rolling a soft ball to baby rather than rough housing. A hilarious consequence was at one point he was essentially playing fetch with her.

If redirection isn’t working, tap into their fomo. If our toddler is having a hard time playing with baby (because he’s doing something a baby would destroy like trying to build legos) we will take baby to another space, maybe turn on some music, and have a grand time without toddler. Eventually he’ll come in like hey, watcha doing? And enforce a he must play gently or he gets removed from the space rule.

Sorry for the ramble. It’s late and I’m still awake waiting for the toddler to finally fall asleep.

Eta: another thing I noticed, if I give kiddo more “big boy time” like 1-1 dates with mom or dad or special time after baby goes to sleep where he can play big boy toys or something, he’s often gentler with baby and seems happier to embrace a big brother role with her. Especially with dad he will do a bit a rougher play which I think helps scratch an itch of sorts for him.

Eta2: oh! One more thing, I feel like I remember reading somewhere that the perpetrator should be the one leaving the space. So if you pick up baby and move away it may reinforce the behavior unintentionally. It’s one of the reasons we’ve begun to implement time outs. He is not playing safely so he cannot stay in the play space.

 

[diademjewel]

@kjones Thank you, I’ll definitely work on having more talks like this. I do emphasize when he is being gentle and tell him how that behavior is appreciated.

I stopped timeouts since he started just running away to give himself a time out after pushing. But maybe that’s a step in the right direction? I’m struggling with that myself with my own insecure attachment issues, I don’t want to run away when I do something someone doesn’t like. I was worrying that I’m teaching my toddler that basically he can push as long as he runs away and gives himself a time out after? But maybe I’m over thinking it.

 

[kjones]

@diademjewel He shouldn’t be allowed to run to time out by himself in my opinion. My son will sometimes gleefully run away when he does something he knows is wrong and it’s partially to avoid a scolding/serious talk, partially because it’s a fun game to him. (We call it Pidan or stinky egg mode). Usually when he’s like that it really means he needs to get out of the house and do something productive like watch and/help with yard work or something. It’s a sign that I need to give kiddo a job.

The point of a time out is to allow time for everyone to calm down and think about what happened, then come together to decompress. Time out doesn’t begin until kiddo is quietly sitting/standing in the time out spot (usually with his head on the wall to prevent him from flailing around or looking around) and the timer resets when he talks to people or is goofing off (timer doesn’t really exist, I end time out when it looks like he’s calmed down and is ready to talk). At the end of time out we talk about what happened. I try to make it child led by asking him why he was in time out, can he think of a time someone did the thing to him, how does he think the thing made mom/dad/sister feel? How does a big boy handle it? Stuff like that. He gets to be part of the solution by helping think of how to avoid the situation next time (next time he wants to shove or hit or play rough, what can he do that keeps everyone safe). Then we hug it out and if appropriate, apologize to each other.

I’ll sometimes also decompress with him at the end of the day after storytime or in bed while we’re simmering down.

I’ve heard also that role play with stuffies and dolls is helpful. Sometimes we’ll play with stuffies and have one hit the other and the one that got hit will cry and be sad and not want to play anymore and son will scold the other one and explain why hitting or shoving isn’t kind. It’s very cute actually

Eta: saw your edit about not having a good spot for time out. Try a sticker or a something on the wall and having him put his head on it. Then time out is anywhere you are. If he’s “being a stinky egg” then consider having him help with dinner. My son loved scrubbing potatoes on the floor of the kitchen or cutting cucumbers with a butter knife. It made him feel like a big boy and contributing to a family task.

 

[keepingsteady]

@diademjewel IMO it still sounds like toddler gets a lot of attention after the incidents. i would keep it very short and very firm.

“we do not push people. say sorry to brother. i’m taking brother with me/putting brother in the playard to be safe.” and remove baby for a couple minutes as big brother’s consequence.

it’s hard managing 2 young toddlers! i’m sure this is just a phase that will pass. hang in there!

 

[diademjewel]

@keepingsteady Good thought, we will try and keep it more brief. Definitely a tough stage with us which we are trying to do our best to keep everyone safe through.

 

[ellimae]

@diademjewel Read your post and have seen your update. Time outs aren't the best consequence for behaviour like this. This is because it isn't a logical consequence and it teaches them nothing.

Something that might work (and worked great with our toddler when he would bite people): "if you keep hurting people, you will have to play alone for a while. People don't like to play with someone that hurts them." Then I would just wait until kiddo called me again (which was usually within the minute) and he'd say he'd want to play together. I'd reiterate that I do not want to play with him if he's biting me. If he promises not to bite again, I will play with him again.

Also if I had to repeatedly give him consequences I couldn't control my own emotions either anymore (toddler teeth are SHARP!) so I'd 'tap out' if possible and have my partner take over. They would then reiterate the same thing to toddled "mama doesn't want to play anymore because you hurt her. She feels sad and angry now and is taking some alone time to cool down. She will come back and talk to you when she feels better."

Also, "alone" is not the same as unsupervised. I'd usually just sit right out of arm's reach. Still reacting to him etc. Playing alone is not the same as going out of contact. If I needed to go out of contact because I hit my own limits, another parent would be there to stay in contact. It was right around the 2,5 year mark where the consequences really started working so I have faith that if you change your approach your child will learn within a few days

 

[loveisnot143its316]

@diademjewel I can't imagine how difficult it must be to manage both a baby and a toddler at the same time. You're doing great.

I don't have any direct advice, just wanted to recommend the book "Good Inside". If I remember correctly, one of the recommendations is to setup daily quality time with the toddler that is misbehaving. That means no distractions, no phones etc. If you can have your husband or someone else take the baby while you do this it would probably be best. It doesn't have to be a long amount of time, could be 10 mins or so.

Anyway, there are other great suggestions in the books as well. Good luck!

 

[diademjewel]

@loveisnot143its316 Thank you for empathizing and validating me. It is so hard since I was raised in a dysfunctional household and I’m trying to heal my own anxious-disorganized attachment. I’m feeling like a terrible parent right now especially with many comments saying “gentle parenting doesn’t mean no consequences” like why do they think I am here? Because I want to keep doing what I’m doing with no results?

I appreciate your suggestion, I do spend one on one time with my toddler most days except that we have a couple days when I have to cook dinner immediately on getting home from work in order to do bedtime on time. The kids both hang out with me while I cook and “help”.
Definitely open to other ideas as well!

 

[cday1210]

@diademjewel I don’t “gentle” for violence. I get out the big momma voice and say “hey! No! We do not push/kick/hit each other. Go play somewhere else if you can’t control your hands/feet.” The game we were playing ends immediately. This is a few and far between problem for my kids now (10 months and almost 3 year old)

 

[isidore]

@diademjewel Love edit 3! I never expected it but we ended up putting my oldest in the jumparoo for similar reasons. It felt ridiculous but it worked (mostly).

It was fascinating to watch her develop self control once we laid the framework for the consequence. It still takes a bit of time, but they do catch on fairly quickly. Sometimes you can see them doing the mental processing. Really neat.

 

[temirlan]

@diademjewel In ‘no bad kids’ the method goes like this.

‘You want to push X (baby name). I won’t let you push X. You’re having a hard time not pushing so you’re going in the play pen/ baby is going in the play pen.’

The play pen is my interpretation of the method Janet would apply in this situation, she just uses consequences that keep everyone safe and keep the adult from becoming annoyed and resentful, also she advises keeping toddlers away from things they can’t play with safely.

 

[singlestuggler]

@diademjewel All I can say is it will probably eventually get better, continue doing what you're doing. My kids are now 3.25 & 1.5 and they finally get along well enough where the 3 year old doesn't usually push the younger one over for no reason. They do play rough together and sometimes one or the other gets bonked, but it's a lot closer to mutual now.

One thing we do is, if one is hurting the other and both parents are available, one of us will pick up the offender and carry them away, to keep the other kid safe. And if it's just me with them, I will sometimes separate myself and the victim from the perpetrator, for example with a baby gate.

 

[diademjewel]

@singlestuggler Thank you, I’m looking forward to that! They love play wrestling and grabbing each other (mutually) so it’s a tough line. We were thinking that when my husband is available he can be on “vigilance” duty and 1. Try and stop it before it happens “you want to push, i won’t let you push” and 2. Contain him on his lap boringly “I need to keep you both safe”

 

[godsendwoman06]

@diademjewel I would add getting something that's fun and safe to knock down, like one of the punchy the clown things, or some big blocks to stack and knock over.