diademjewel
New member
@godsendwoman06 A punchy clown type thing could be interesting. I have been telling him it’s okay to push, hit and stomp his stuffies and pillows but he doesn’t always want to.
Toddler loves pushing my newly walking baby and I feel lost
- Thread starter diademjewel
- Start date
godsendwoman06
New member
@diademjewel Sometimes it's about the drama of it, so stuffies and pillows won't do it, so it may need to be something that's far more interesting to knock over basically.
anceadcathach
New member
@diademjewel I'd also talk about alternatives to pushing outside of these moments. So in a calm, quiet moment (do those exist with toddlers??), talk about "Sometimes you get really excited and your energy comes out by pushing. Being excited is okay, but pushing is not. What can you try doing instead?" I like to suggest "playing drums" on the couch or floor - literally just hitting hands on the couch.
I'd also try physical separation "I'm going to move you to keep baby safe." Other ideas could be to include toddler in making dinner (or even have him play/colour at the counter or table while you prep), or set up a baby gate situation that gives baby his own space.
It's going to take a LOT of practice and repetition- 2 year olds do not have self control.
Honestly, I think you're doing better than you think you are.
I'd also try physical separation "I'm going to move you to keep baby safe." Other ideas could be to include toddler in making dinner (or even have him play/colour at the counter or table while you prep), or set up a baby gate situation that gives baby his own space.
It's going to take a LOT of practice and repetition- 2 year olds do not have self control.
Honestly, I think you're doing better than you think you are.
@diademjewel There has been so much good advice in this thread - thank you for posting it!! My own boys are 2.5 years and 8 months, and the 2.5yo is sweet 90% of the time but occasionally smacks the baby or gets a little too rowdy, and it is so hard to manage! Just want to let you know you’re not alone and this stuff is hard. 
@diademjewel My toddler is doing the exact same thing right now.
I keep telling her that she's teaching her little brother to be mean, and that he's going to start pushing her down and soon he will be bigger and stronger than her.
I have also told her a few times that now it's my turn to push her down - and then when she says she doesn't want that, asking her if she thinks her baby brother wanted to be pushed down.
Most of the time though, I just tell her that I'm removing little brother so he can be safe from her, and that she can play with him when she's ready to be nice and not be a mean little catshit.
Five minute time-outs are also a new thing. They seem to be getting through to her a bit better than just taking Baby Brother away, especially when I need both of them to still be contained because I'm doing something that's not kid-safe.
I keep telling her that she's teaching her little brother to be mean, and that he's going to start pushing her down and soon he will be bigger and stronger than her.
I have also told her a few times that now it's my turn to push her down - and then when she says she doesn't want that, asking her if she thinks her baby brother wanted to be pushed down.
Most of the time though, I just tell her that I'm removing little brother so he can be safe from her, and that she can play with him when she's ready to be nice and not be a mean little catshit.
Five minute time-outs are also a new thing. They seem to be getting through to her a bit better than just taking Baby Brother away, especially when I need both of them to still be contained because I'm doing something that's not kid-safe.
laurie4321
New member
@diademjewel So what I do when my toddler is being tough with my 11 month old is I say I won’t let you hurt us and I go to another room with the baby and tell my son that we come down to play again when he’s ready to be calm and safe with his body. This typically brings on tears of course so I’ll get on his level and say I see you’re upset but you cannot be unsafe with your body. Would you like a hug from baby and I? He will say yes and he will be much more gentle with baby. If he is rough again I babywear baby and tell him “I don’t like seeing babies getting hurt!! I am going to carry sister now”
jacqueline76
New member
@diademjewel A couple things you can add
- teach him to ask for space if he needs it (like if baby is walking towards him)
- teach him some sort of gentle fun game he can play with baby - can he boop their nose or high five something that makes them laugh. If he pushes them you can say “oh do you want to play with baby?” Let’s try a high five
- EVERY time remind your son if expectations and the consequences if he doesn’t “rmemeber to keep your hands on your own body. If you can’t keep baby safe I need to move you to the safe spot until your hands calm down”. I have recently recommitted to doing the expectation/consequence reminder with my son and it’s made a noticeable difference.
- don’t forget to catch him being good. In the beginning you can make a big deal
Out of him like….walking in the room and not pushing him. Call your partner over and point out how gentle he is being. Try to loudly and appreciatively notice not just the times he is being kind but the times he is NOT pushing (aka doing doing). You will build that positive reinforcement loop.
- teach him to ask for space if he needs it (like if baby is walking towards him)
- teach him some sort of gentle fun game he can play with baby - can he boop their nose or high five something that makes them laugh. If he pushes them you can say “oh do you want to play with baby?” Let’s try a high five
- EVERY time remind your son if expectations and the consequences if he doesn’t “rmemeber to keep your hands on your own body. If you can’t keep baby safe I need to move you to the safe spot until your hands calm down”. I have recently recommitted to doing the expectation/consequence reminder with my son and it’s made a noticeable difference.
- don’t forget to catch him being good. In the beginning you can make a big deal
Out of him like….walking in the room and not pushing him. Call your partner over and point out how gentle he is being. Try to loudly and appreciatively notice not just the times he is being kind but the times he is NOT pushing (aka doing doing). You will build that positive reinforcement loop.
chinadoll1966
New member
@diademjewel I’ve been going through the same thing with my 2.5 year old at 7 month old over the last month. She was running up to the baby and hitting, slapping, punching, biting, clawing at her face, and pulling her hair. I was beside myself and crying daily. It took a huge emotional toll on me. I know I overreacted with anger a few times but was able to get my own emotions under control. So same as you, no big reaction just a flat “oh no baby is hurt. We keep our hands on our own body” and was doing time outs but she would just go rage wild and pee her pants and it didn’t get her to calm down. So I changed the consequence to be tied to whatever she was doing at that moment. Tv goes off, toy gets put away, mommy goes across the room, no park, no swim class etc…. We kept them very separate for a few weeks and basically my just played referee. We gave a TON of praise for positive gentle touch like hugs and kisses and tickles. Then I realized the cause typically was the baby crying so we got in between them any time there was any crying and thwarted so many attempts at violence. And I changed the words to a Daniel Tiger song to be a calm down song and gave her a designated pillow she could lose it on. It’s gotten so much better over the past few weeks.
daybeliever
New member
@diademjewel I am not at this point in parenting yet so am unable to speak from experience, but I recommend looking into the work of Gordon Neufeld and Deborah MacNamara on the topic of frustration and discipline. See if it resonates! Based on what you posted, I think you may find their work really helpful.
zelda_freak
New member
@diademjewel It’s developmentally inappropriate to expect a 2.5 to control the impulse to push, so it falls on you to keep them separate enough that your little one is safe. They deserve to have the space and autonomy to develop without fear of being attacked/knocked over.
Just “I can’t let you hurt little sibling” as you block or move your older child away. You have to hold and enforce boundaries for both of them while they are developing impulse control and better communication.
You should not impose consequences, that won’t help develop healthy impulse control, the natural consequence is you moving them and not allowing them near their sibling, as well as their sibling not wanting to be near them, and possibly you restricting their space when you can’t be right there to safeguard the younger.
Just “I can’t let you hurt little sibling” as you block or move your older child away. You have to hold and enforce boundaries for both of them while they are developing impulse control and better communication.
You should not impose consequences, that won’t help develop healthy impulse control, the natural consequence is you moving them and not allowing them near their sibling, as well as their sibling not wanting to be near them, and possibly you restricting their space when you can’t be right there to safeguard the younger.
diademjewel
New member
@zelda_freak Respectfully, I disagree that he can’t control his impulse to push. It is an automatic response which he can learn to replace with other behaviors. I have seen him learn to control other impulses previously; for example he used to want to bite us all the time, and I taught him what else he can do besides biting
I do stop him and say “I won’t let you push, pushing hurts” when I am able to reach them but the issue is that I can’t be within arms reach for their every waking minute.
The “separate spaces” thing is another issue. I don’t know who is able to divide their living spaces off enough so that both children can play and have fun separately and supervised, but that isn’t feasible for our household. It’s also important for kids to learn to play together safely so I think this would be avoiding the issue.
What we are doing now is trying a “safe space/timeout space” in a pack n play as that does fit into our living area. I am also having my husband on hand more intensely when I’m not able to be right next to them keeping them safe from each other
I do stop him and say “I won’t let you push, pushing hurts” when I am able to reach them but the issue is that I can’t be within arms reach for their every waking minute.
The “separate spaces” thing is another issue. I don’t know who is able to divide their living spaces off enough so that both children can play and have fun separately and supervised, but that isn’t feasible for our household. It’s also important for kids to learn to play together safely so I think this would be avoiding the issue.
What we are doing now is trying a “safe space/timeout space” in a pack n play as that does fit into our living area. I am also having my husband on hand more intensely when I’m not able to be right next to them keeping them safe from each other
zelda_freak
New member
@diademjewel I’m not saying he can’t in any circumstance, but true impulse control develops around 7 in typically developing children, later in neurodivergent children. Also many kids you see “controlling” their behavior have been operantly conditioned due to fear of punishment. That’s a shortcut that gets desired behavior, and it comes at the cost of healthy attachment.
Fwiw a slightly restricted space while maybe feeling like a punishment in some senses is really more of a natural consequence of your specific circumstances as a way to keep everyone safe. It still may do some of that conditioning, but like you say, you must do something, so if it’s strictly about safety and you aren’t using planned ignoring/isolation or forcing an arbitrary time limit I wouldn’t put it in the category of causing attachment issues.
I also agree we haven’t built a society that makes being responsible for our children practical in many many ways, but that doesn’t change that by not meeting those needs we are compromising the health and safety of our children. Most parents have to make decisions that compromise the ideal at one point or another, this might be one for you.
Ultimately you don’t have to answer to me or anyone, you just do what you can do, but that’s what is fair (from the standpoint of healthy boundaries and environment) and developmentally appropriate for your kids without your personal constraints considered.
Fwiw a slightly restricted space while maybe feeling like a punishment in some senses is really more of a natural consequence of your specific circumstances as a way to keep everyone safe. It still may do some of that conditioning, but like you say, you must do something, so if it’s strictly about safety and you aren’t using planned ignoring/isolation or forcing an arbitrary time limit I wouldn’t put it in the category of causing attachment issues.
I also agree we haven’t built a society that makes being responsible for our children practical in many many ways, but that doesn’t change that by not meeting those needs we are compromising the health and safety of our children. Most parents have to make decisions that compromise the ideal at one point or another, this might be one for you.
Ultimately you don’t have to answer to me or anyone, you just do what you can do, but that’s what is fair (from the standpoint of healthy boundaries and environment) and developmentally appropriate for your kids without your personal constraints considered.
rapberrylatte
New member
@diademjewel Firmly saying no pushing works for me just fine
diademjewel
New member
@rapberrylatte Did not work for us
@diademjewel Your doing great and are doing everything we did/do! It takes time lol sometimes they get it right away and sometimes it takes months. Ours are 3.5yr old and a 1.5 yr old.
It is the best when they play together now. I would not fret to much at this age they do not seem to hold grudges and move on pretty fast to more fun things, just keep doing what your doing. Lol now our younger one pulls out 3.5 yr olds hair and drags her caveman style across the floor laughing, it can be fun times in this houshold.
It is the best when they play together now. I would not fret to much at this age they do not seem to hold grudges and move on pretty fast to more fun things, just keep doing what your doing. Lol now our younger one pulls out 3.5 yr olds hair and drags her caveman style across the floor laughing, it can be fun times in this houshold.
@diademjewel Instead of saying "we don't push" you might want to try something like "we push safely." Offer alternatives that also involve pushing. Pushing on the wall, your hands, pushing stuffies off of things, one of those inflatable punching bags, etc. introduce these things outside of an incident as fun activities and offer them throughout the day if he likes them. You could also take them to the park and have him push his little brother on the swing.
Even if you find a consequence that works for him, it might work better with giving him acceptable alternatives.
Even if you find a consequence that works for him, it might work better with giving him acceptable alternatives.
@diademjewel I'm re-reading Hunt Gather Parent so these are suggestions in the vein of that book and may or may not be helpful. You could emphasize that pushing is what little babies do and big kids take care of their siblings. My 2.5 year old wants to be a big kid so bad! You want to link your desired outcome to maturity and the inappropriate behavior to immaturity.
Tell big kid that there's a pushing monster who lives outside your house and looks in the window. When he sees pushing he might come in and take away the kid for a day. This sounds mean but so is pushing. I told my son a similar story recently (about a monster that will grab him if he gets too far away from me outside) and it seemed to upset him and I felt bad... But the next day he was heading to the back yard without me, stopped, and came back and grabbed my hand to bring me with. Which is huge progress. It hurts to feel like you've upset your child but man I NEED him to not wander away at the farmers market and better to be a little scared than to get lost (or have an injured baby in your case).
Tell big kid that there's a pushing monster who lives outside your house and looks in the window. When he sees pushing he might come in and take away the kid for a day. This sounds mean but so is pushing. I told my son a similar story recently (about a monster that will grab him if he gets too far away from me outside) and it seemed to upset him and I felt bad... But the next day he was heading to the back yard without me, stopped, and came back and grabbed my hand to bring me with. Which is huge progress. It hurts to feel like you've upset your child but man I NEED him to not wander away at the farmers market and better to be a little scared than to get lost (or have an injured baby in your case).
sunsetrose
New member
@sunsetrose Except we use fear all the time? When I tell my son "you need to stay close in public or else I will lose you" am I not hoping he'll be a little afraid of that outcome? When we tell kids to not touch a hot pan because they'll get a bad burn is that not fear? When they run away in public and we catch them and are afraid and disregulated ourselves and lose it a little and say "you must NEVER EVER DO THAT AGAIN" is that not potentially scary? When I drag my crying son out of a store because he ran away, and he's super upset, is that not parenting with negative emotions? Is it better to get put in a stressful and dangerous position (my 2.5 year old wandering off while I'm out with him and my newborn)? Better to never go anywhere because he doesn't stay close? All the advice to "set the boundary, enforce the boundary, do it no matter how much your kids resists" - which we know just results in a giant tantrum 99% of the time - that's fine? But then the morning is ruined, I'm pissed, and I'm carrying my screaming and flailing 30lb child out of a library while also wearing a baby in a carrier - is that really better emotionally and more rooted in our loving connection?
I'm just asking these questions because scary stories have been used by parents around the globe pretty much forever to keep kids from doing things they shouldn't, but are a little incomprehensible to them. Don't go near the river, a monster will drag you away. Etc etc etc. And it works. Monster stories are a much more common parenting tactic if you look at things globally than pretty much anything anyone has said in this thread, which are all extremely Western. Why not consider them with an open mind instead of dismissing them out of hand?
Also my son is sleeping just fine thank you?
I'm just asking these questions because scary stories have been used by parents around the globe pretty much forever to keep kids from doing things they shouldn't, but are a little incomprehensible to them. Don't go near the river, a monster will drag you away. Etc etc etc. And it works. Monster stories are a much more common parenting tactic if you look at things globally than pretty much anything anyone has said in this thread, which are all extremely Western. Why not consider them with an open mind instead of dismissing them out of hand?
Also my son is sleeping just fine thank you?
sunsetrose
New member
@brione Fear is a tool to be used where necessary. It definitely has a place but justifying it by simply saying”that’s how it’s been done for generations” gives serious boomer survivors bias vibes. Like, not the same but same issue - ‘my parents hit me and I turned out ok’.
For me, that’s any situation where your kid could be injured or seriously impacted. I appreciate that this COULD reach that level (of them hitting/pushing someone and hurting them) but id hope I could deal with the issue before it gets so severe.
Now if it’s a case of touching a hot pan, running into a road, irritating an animal - fair play, then fear is necessary.
In this particular situation imo, OP hasn’t enforced a single consequence so jumping to a fear based approach is overkill before you’ve attempted to fix it in a less severe way.
For me, that’s any situation where your kid could be injured or seriously impacted. I appreciate that this COULD reach that level (of them hitting/pushing someone and hurting them) but id hope I could deal with the issue before it gets so severe.
Now if it’s a case of touching a hot pan, running into a road, irritating an animal - fair play, then fear is necessary.
In this particular situation imo, OP hasn’t enforced a single consequence so jumping to a fear based approach is overkill before you’ve attempted to fix it in a less severe way.