@maxinvasion This was exactly me for about a year. I just had to accept it, be patient, and eventually it ended. Hang in there, Dad, you're doing great 
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Losing it; 2 y/o awake for hours at a time. How to break the cycle?
- Thread starter maxinvasion
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- advice request dads
phunkattak
New member
@maxinvasion We had a massive sleep regression with our 2year old daughter when our son was born. Just wouldn't sleep. We eventually sought out a child sleep doctor, there is a whole child sleep center where we live.
We had to re sleep train her. Like from the beginning. It worked and now she's fine.
We had to re sleep train her. Like from the beginning. It worked and now she's fine.
@maxinvasion Stop long naps, or maybe stop naps at all. Each kid is different, one of mine napped regularly till he was 3 with no problem, the other was absolutely done at 9 months. If she napped she was up till 1am at least. Once we stopped naps she slept 12-14 hours a night. She’s 15 and still will sleep that long if she doesn’t have school.
elitecheapjersey
New member
@maxinvasion While this is not a solution, my secret is infants Tylenol. I do about 2.5-3ml for 1-2 years old. I play under the logic that kids are in way more pain than we give them credit for and for longer than we assume. It’s always been the go-to for unsettled sleeping.
Don’t ever put your kid on drugs for long periods of time or go big on doses. If pain is the issue and it works, I’d taper them off it too, so they don’t go back into bad habits.
For example, Tylenol during tooth-growing then for 4 days after, tapering to 1ml by 4th day.
I might get hate here, some parents are super anti-drugs. I’m all about the right tool for the right job and I haven’t been wrong yet.
Don’t ever put your kid on drugs for long periods of time or go big on doses. If pain is the issue and it works, I’d taper them off it too, so they don’t go back into bad habits.
For example, Tylenol during tooth-growing then for 4 days after, tapering to 1ml by 4th day.
I might get hate here, some parents are super anti-drugs. I’m all about the right tool for the right job and I haven’t been wrong yet.
@maxinvasion Hire a sleep consultant to help you sleep train her. We paid $500 for it. Worth every penny.
@maxinvasion Assuming they go to daycare and have to leave the house by a certain time because you both work?
*does she wake up easy or groggy? (If she’s up and at it… might be a regression or low sleep need phase… sorry)
*try a later bedtime? Maybe she feels like it’s a nap
*try a “magic light” (May only be effective from 2.5 / 3 years and up): light off = stay in bed/cuddle with toys/read a book if they can turn on their room light. Light on = wake up time
*does she wake up easy or groggy? (If she’s up and at it… might be a regression or low sleep need phase… sorry)
*try a later bedtime? Maybe she feels like it’s a nap
*try a “magic light” (May only be effective from 2.5 / 3 years and up): light off = stay in bed/cuddle with toys/read a book if they can turn on their room light. Light on = wake up time
@maxinvasion Push her bedtime to later. Like 9:30-10:00 and see if she will sleep through. A friend had to do that with their kiddo, he was essentially experiencing his early bedtime as a late in the day nap and then waking to play as he would during the day, then another nap before morning waking.
angelaintraining44
New member
@maxinvasion I think nap time has come to an end. Then keep making her bedtime later until she sleeps through the night. Make sure you keep waking her up in the morning at the same time.
faithinmysavior
New member
@maxinvasion Rip off the bandaid. You need a set routine that doesn’t change. The constant adjustments aren’t helping you. Lock her door when you tuck her in and don’t go back in until morning. She doesn’t need anything. She doesn’t need food or water or attention but you’re giving it to her… she won’t change her behavior until you adjust yours.
@maxinvasion We had something very similar to what you describe. Tried everything. Got sick of the suggestions from people of things that clearly would not help in our case, or things we had tried already. Bedtime was tough enough, the middle of the night wake-ups would destroy us. It happened most around the age of two where she would want to be up for hours in the middle of the night.
All I can say is that it did in our case get better and I hope it does/I'm sure it will in your case also. Around 3yr3mo (not long after the arrival of her baby brother) old she developed much healthier sleeping habits.
All I can say is that it did in our case get better and I hope it does/I'm sure it will in your case also. Around 3yr3mo (not long after the arrival of her baby brother) old she developed much healthier sleeping habits.
@maxinvasion My wife and I are in the exact same boat. 2yo girl, hasn't slept I night through since she was born. Up from around 130 to 430 just about every night. If you figure this out let me know what works. Melatonin is a joke!
@maxinvasion As others have said, you guys have basically done the opposite of what all sleep training books say. You have effectively trained her to believe & do the following “if I flip out and cry in the middle of the night, mom or dad (my favorite people in the world) will come and hang out with me - sweet!!”
You should have transitioned to “cry it out” sleep training at age like 9 months or something.
But you are where you are, and I get it, it is totally understandable.
You need to start a protocol where you dramatically scale back what you do when she cries … not saying go cold turkey on day 1. Your protocol might be “1 week of just going in the room when she cries but not talking or playing, and light stays off” … followed by “1 week of going in only for 30 minutes, light stays off” … followed by a week of just going in for 10 minutes … and then not going in at all. But basically you need to wean her off that behavior and break the connection in her mind from “I cry at night = fun mom/dad hang out time!”
The good news is kids learn fast … if you commit to a protocol, I think you could wean her off that in like a month. Also, buy a sleep training book and read it for more info. Good luck!
You should have transitioned to “cry it out” sleep training at age like 9 months or something.
But you are where you are, and I get it, it is totally understandable.
You need to start a protocol where you dramatically scale back what you do when she cries … not saying go cold turkey on day 1. Your protocol might be “1 week of just going in the room when she cries but not talking or playing, and light stays off” … followed by “1 week of going in only for 30 minutes, light stays off” … followed by a week of just going in for 10 minutes … and then not going in at all. But basically you need to wean her off that behavior and break the connection in her mind from “I cry at night = fun mom/dad hang out time!”
The good news is kids learn fast … if you commit to a protocol, I think you could wean her off that in like a month. Also, buy a sleep training book and read it for more info. Good luck!
@maxinvasion Cut the nap in half. Push bedtime 30 minutes to at least 8pm. Do it for a full week.
Also, do you have a camera in the room? Maybe there is a truck, train, something else waking her up that she doesn’t even remember. Also, put a white noise machine in there if there isn’t one.
Also, do you have a camera in the room? Maybe there is a truck, train, something else waking her up that she doesn’t even remember. Also, put a white noise machine in there if there isn’t one.
shadow3829
New member
@maxinvasion Get a sleep trainer my friend. Pay $300-400 to an expert. We did it, saved us our sanity.
enduringwone
New member
@maxinvasion I’d quit letting her nap during the day
katrina2017
New member
@maxinvasion First: Take away her day nap, if you need just do quiet time where she reads or plays quietly. Make sure you tell her it’s quiet time and get yourself some peace; you also don’t want her wearing out.
Next: bath and bedtime go together like pb&j. The hot bath stimulates what sleep scientists call a “thermal dump” and helps them to sleep better.
Ambiance: set the mood for sleep right after dinner, lights go dimmer, tv is lessened or you set a time, like “10 more minutes and bath time”, important that lights go down, the air temp gets cooler in the house conducive for sleep.
Food: have it be about 45 minutes to an hour before bath so that you don’t risk the pee in the night need (although sounds like she’s possibly in pull ups).
Lights: no lights, use blackout curtains, no nightlights. Sometimes street lights or even the moon can creep in the sides or part in the curtain so check that. Light is a big way to wake someone up.
Sounds: we use a big box fan you can buy for like $30 at any store. That helps to cut out any extraneous noises that can wake up your kid. Sound is another biggie that can wake up someone.
Hunger: make sure they aren’t hungry or thirst but limit drinks before bed to a few sips. I like to give my kid something handheld like a slice of raisin bread if she’s hungry before bed. Eats it and takes a couple sips of water and she’s off to sleep. It gives enough calories to get through the night if she ate most of her dinner. Hunger is another biggie to wake someone up, it’s uncomfortable to have your tummy growling.
Temperature: temp is another big factor in sleep. Too hot wakes you up, too cold too. Setting the home between 68-72° is ideal. Make sure she has access to blankets in the bed and that they stay on, often at this age they kick them off and have no way to pull them up well enough and they wake up. Or they get too hot and wake. Be sure that it’s ideal blanket situation. Maybe less clothing to sleep in if that helps too. Clothing Bunches up and our kid is ok in a t shirt and undies. Sometimes takes the shirt off in the night, so if more comfortable, just the undies or pull up is ok too.
Final note - Bedtime routine is key: keep to the same times roughly, try for 12-14 hrs at this age, it weans out as they get a bit older. Keep the same bath, story or song, a hug and kiss and bed. These things are primers to set the mood that sleep time is here. If you consider all the things that can wake up a person and her actual sleeping conditions, then it should work itself out again.
Resource: I learned all I know about sleep from listening to Dr. Matthew Walker podcasts and youtube interviews. He’s a sleep researcher and wrote a book, I learned about my sleep and translated that to my kid. It’s not perfect, but works like 98% of the time. Check out one of his many videos: on Andrew Huberman’s show (neuroscientist)
Edit to add for your current situation-
With your bedtime she should be awake for at least 5-6 hours before bed to be sufficiently tired. Your naps are probably geared for when she was younger and needed more sleep overall. Sleep times need to adjust through their childhood. A 11am-1pm nap might be ok, but honestly I’d cut out the nap at this age and go for quiet time for an hour, because when you nap it’s usually 3 hours, that won’t work with your bedtime.
If and When she wakes up: nicely but firmly say, you need to go back to bed, and softly walk her back. Say “I’ll tuck you in but I need sleep too. Good night. “ then leave. If she says anything just reinforce kindly and softly that you all need your sleep and it’s still night time.
The Talk: You need to have a day time discussion about what she’s doing at night. Tell her she’s a big girl and needs to sleep on her own and that you and mom also need sleep. Tell her it helps everyone when you get sleep, that if you don’t get enough you feel grumpy and tired to do much. She will consider that to some degree even may understand and empathize. Surely she doesn’t want mom and dad grumpy or too tired to play.
Good luck!
Next: bath and bedtime go together like pb&j. The hot bath stimulates what sleep scientists call a “thermal dump” and helps them to sleep better.
Ambiance: set the mood for sleep right after dinner, lights go dimmer, tv is lessened or you set a time, like “10 more minutes and bath time”, important that lights go down, the air temp gets cooler in the house conducive for sleep.
Food: have it be about 45 minutes to an hour before bath so that you don’t risk the pee in the night need (although sounds like she’s possibly in pull ups).
Lights: no lights, use blackout curtains, no nightlights. Sometimes street lights or even the moon can creep in the sides or part in the curtain so check that. Light is a big way to wake someone up.
Sounds: we use a big box fan you can buy for like $30 at any store. That helps to cut out any extraneous noises that can wake up your kid. Sound is another biggie that can wake up someone.
Hunger: make sure they aren’t hungry or thirst but limit drinks before bed to a few sips. I like to give my kid something handheld like a slice of raisin bread if she’s hungry before bed. Eats it and takes a couple sips of water and she’s off to sleep. It gives enough calories to get through the night if she ate most of her dinner. Hunger is another biggie to wake someone up, it’s uncomfortable to have your tummy growling.
Temperature: temp is another big factor in sleep. Too hot wakes you up, too cold too. Setting the home between 68-72° is ideal. Make sure she has access to blankets in the bed and that they stay on, often at this age they kick them off and have no way to pull them up well enough and they wake up. Or they get too hot and wake. Be sure that it’s ideal blanket situation. Maybe less clothing to sleep in if that helps too. Clothing Bunches up and our kid is ok in a t shirt and undies. Sometimes takes the shirt off in the night, so if more comfortable, just the undies or pull up is ok too.
Final note - Bedtime routine is key: keep to the same times roughly, try for 12-14 hrs at this age, it weans out as they get a bit older. Keep the same bath, story or song, a hug and kiss and bed. These things are primers to set the mood that sleep time is here. If you consider all the things that can wake up a person and her actual sleeping conditions, then it should work itself out again.
Resource: I learned all I know about sleep from listening to Dr. Matthew Walker podcasts and youtube interviews. He’s a sleep researcher and wrote a book, I learned about my sleep and translated that to my kid. It’s not perfect, but works like 98% of the time. Check out one of his many videos: on Andrew Huberman’s show (neuroscientist)
Edit to add for your current situation-
With your bedtime she should be awake for at least 5-6 hours before bed to be sufficiently tired. Your naps are probably geared for when she was younger and needed more sleep overall. Sleep times need to adjust through their childhood. A 11am-1pm nap might be ok, but honestly I’d cut out the nap at this age and go for quiet time for an hour, because when you nap it’s usually 3 hours, that won’t work with your bedtime.
If and When she wakes up: nicely but firmly say, you need to go back to bed, and softly walk her back. Say “I’ll tuck you in but I need sleep too. Good night. “ then leave. If she says anything just reinforce kindly and softly that you all need your sleep and it’s still night time.
The Talk: You need to have a day time discussion about what she’s doing at night. Tell her she’s a big girl and needs to sleep on her own and that you and mom also need sleep. Tell her it helps everyone when you get sleep, that if you don’t get enough you feel grumpy and tired to do much. She will consider that to some degree even may understand and empathize. Surely she doesn’t want mom and dad grumpy or too tired to play.
Good luck!
maxinvasion
New member
@katrina2017 This is very detailed, thank you so much! I’ll definitely pick up the ones we don’t do already.
katrina2017
New member
@maxinvasion You’re welcome!
@maxinvasion Ours wasn’t waking up like that in the middle of the night, but instead just wouldn’t fall asleep for 2-3 hours. We’re tried a whole bunch of shot and I’m not sure which was actually effective, but my hunch is the following worked well (not sure if it applies to you at all). [She’s 28 months old]
-the camera for our monitor had a little light that was kind of bright. When she was younger I think she ignored it, but now I feel like it was distracting her. So we loved the camera from overhead to just on a dresser across the room
-we still use a sound machine. When she sleeps it’s on a wooshing noise with no light. We started turning it to birds chirping and a yellow light right before we walked in in the morning. We told our girl that mommy and daddy couldn’t pick her up until the birds start singing. “I’d love to pick you up, (at 10pm), but I can only do it when the birds are chirping and the yellow light is on”
she stopped calling to us and started just laying still and quiet and falling asleep more quickly.
Again, no idea if this is relevant to your situation, but I’ve been so surprised that it worked that I had to share.
-the camera for our monitor had a little light that was kind of bright. When she was younger I think she ignored it, but now I feel like it was distracting her. So we loved the camera from overhead to just on a dresser across the room
-we still use a sound machine. When she sleeps it’s on a wooshing noise with no light. We started turning it to birds chirping and a yellow light right before we walked in in the morning. We told our girl that mommy and daddy couldn’t pick her up until the birds start singing. “I’d love to pick you up, (at 10pm), but I can only do it when the birds are chirping and the yellow light is on”
she stopped calling to us and started just laying still and quiet and falling asleep more quickly.
Again, no idea if this is relevant to your situation, but I’ve been so surprised that it worked that I had to share.
@maxinvasion How much yard time that kid getting. Mine had to just run. For hours. Snow, heat, rain, needed at least 3 hours yard time to sleep.
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