BF v FF shame and “attachment theory”

[nursered]

@pastorchrisparker Of course, I’m glad to offer a differing perspective from the bourgoisie faux-naturalism that’s so rapidly infecting popular opinion these days

It’s all around us lately, and it can be extraordinarily tough not to give into the pressure.

You’ve absolutely hit the nail on the head with “white feminism.” It is a certain brand of materialism that shrouds itself in burlap and insists upon its own efficacy with no real evidence. & It leaves no room for variation... I call that fascism.

This machine is not concerned with your health or your baby’s happiness, only that you bow to its command. Only that you feel inferior.

I refuse.

(And yes, I’m calling you out, goop!)

 

[pastorchrisparker]

@nursered Damn girl we are the same! You are awesome. I think white feminism needs to be eradicated immediately (my partner and I share the same beliefs with all of this so it’s easy to come to conclusions for things like FF)

I don’t know if you saw the drama with The Wing, but it’s exactly the whole point, white women lifting up other white women while they have BIPOC staff catering to them not allowing to even be in the room for talks.

Ugh anyway that’s besides the point because this is 100 percent helping me see all of this in a different light that fits with my morals and beliefs. So thanks!!

 

[symphony4him]

@nursered I agree with everything you wrote and I think you are 100% right on the idea of putting women "back in the home." If you look at the orgins of organizations like La Leche League, it could not be more clear.

 

[pastorchrisparker]

@symphony4him Lol so funny my told me to look in to them just last night!!

 

[nursered]

@pastorchrisparker That’s the irony, the women’s lib movement teamed up with La Leche fundamendalists due to similar goals regarding BF, yet their morals couldn’t have been more different. The group formed due to their stringent Catholic belief that as “Mary made enough milk for Christ, so should all women feed their children from the breast.”

The name is taken from a religious shrine in St. Augustine, dedicated to "Nuestra Señora de la Leche y Buen Parto", meaning "Our Lady of Happy Delivery and Plentiful Milk.”

They worked with feminists to spread their propaganda, but they are certainly not feminists by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[pastorchrisparker]

@nursered Yeah too bad my mom bought in to it. Kind of odd of but I think this was just some sort of 60s feminism - the baby boomers love to stick to things like this and it’s hard to change their minds .

 

[roneil]

@nursered Smashing that upvote button

 

[kadee]

@nursered

This is also evidenced by the subsidization of “Breast is Best” () in hospitals all over the world.

dude, i looked up "baby friendly" hospitals in my state, and they are ALL hospitals in lower income neighborhoods. they're pushing breastfeeding on women in poor neighborhoods probably so they think breastfeeding is the only way to feed their babies, and/or so they don't get formula through government programs. i gave birth at a hospital in a more upper-middle-class, predominately white area, and none of the nurses or doctors said anything. they just said OK and gave me a shit ton of free formula to take home with me. kinda messed up.

 

[nursered]

@kadee That’s extremely sketch. I definitely don’t trust the “baby-friendly” agenda, especially when it comes at the expense of the mother. And are they truly making any kind of real, social change? What is the goal exactly?

 

[aimee3915]

@nursered To save money. I've heard people at WIC are so rude to you if you need formula.

 

[steelfps]

@nursered You're exactly right. Nobody is willing to say it. People think I'm crazy for thinking there is a conspiracy to keep women from advancing. I'm like... Yes... It is a well known, well-studied conspiracy called... the patriarchy.

 

[pastorchrisparker]

@steelfps More of this!

 

[adastrasalem]

@nursered My baby 100% wouldn’t have made it past 4 days old without bottles. He just couldn’t latch and drink effectively.

 

[nursered]

@adastrasalem Exactly! I’m so glad he’s happy and healthy and thriving My boy is the same way, many tried to push me to BF but I could tell he was starving... if I had “kept trying” instead of “giving up” () he probably wouldn’t be here today.

F yeah formula!!

 

[randall1022]

@nursered My 51 year old mom was told she was brave and strong for breastfeeding me and my sister when we were baby's. She'd go "oh yes, I just love the way it saves money, formula is so expensive".

 

[nursered]

@randall1022 And now we’re the brave ones for NOT breastfeeding. Hah. Funny how no matter what we choose, as women, there’ll be someone to demonize us for it!

 

[pastorchrisparker]

@nursered I’ve thought a lot about this comment - how do you feel about the whole “chemicals” aspect? I don’t really believe in that but I’ve been seeing all these “breast is best” on YouTube as I’m looking at formula and everyone is so critical about it (doesn’t change my mind just interested in your take.

 

[nursered]

@pastorchrisparker I see it this way—in this society, we readily use available chemicals that help improve our lives of all types and varying toxicity. In cases of cancer, we even inject them into our veins (or have doctors do it) to save our lives. Any scientific authority will tell you the argument against “chemicals” is a logical fallacy.

As for how healthy it makes babies, it also varies on the ingredients used and how it is prepared. When one doesn’t have access to clean water and needs to use powdered formula, it becomes a problem. There are also ingredients that I’m not crazy about, which I avoid by choosing the best brand for our baby. I use pre-mixed which doesn’t include corn syrup and eliminates user error with mixing and such. And he digests it just fine with minimal spitup, something that you can’t plan for with breastfeeding.

The formula of the past didn’t live up to what the modern brands can do, and how closely they can mimic the concentration of nutrients (and even surpass those) of breastmilk. EBF babies generally need supplementation with things like vitamin D, whereas formula-fed babies do not. A mother will have to supplement and augment her own diet to provide proper nutrition in a way that differs from providing for a formula-fed baby, whose nutrition is guaranteed every time. She mustn’t ingest harmful chemicals herself, like nicotine and alcohol and pesticides. Easy enough, right? What about the free-radical pollution from our environment that we can’t control? In our water systems? But we’re against “chemicals,” right?

When our eyes aren’t working optimally, we use contact lenses. The lens solution required is full of “chemicals” but nobody bats an eyelash at that My point is, modern science and medicine often calls for doing that which isn’t found in nature, but it’s a logical fallacy to equate that with toxicity or harmfulness.

And as for my baby, I stopped BF at 12 weeks and he’s now an extremely healthy and strong 5-monther. He stands like a tree and sits on his own, even kicks his legs to try swimming in the pool and has an extremely healthy chunk and height. He’s razor-sharp and picks up on subtleties you’d never expect, even making wordlike-sounds and mastering hand-eye coordination skills like a boss. Before formula, his weight was not doing well and he was nowhere NEAR the healthy, chunky boy he is today. So I’m not worried at all that the formula is hurting him

 

[pastorchrisparker]

@nursered Totally and I love this response thank you for the time. I feel like these breast is best people are out of control. The YouTube vids I watch are like FIRST OF ALL BREAST IS BEST BUT ... Instead of saying - this is the difference between the two. And these are doctors first of all - how rude to people who physically or mentally can’t even try. If offends me as a medicated person and again ... doctors. The whole thing is made to feel like women can do either but really they’re saying that you shouldn’t. I know that I have to EFF because of my own and very personal reasons (which by the way feel so great opening up here) ... but their words are not taking in to consideration how people feel or make women try even harder if it’s not working.

What I’ve learned from you and this group.
- formula is totally fucking fine
- women are essentially forced to breast feed with the breast is best motto
- BF reduce equality in feeding
- it potentially traumatizes women
- it puts all the pressure on women to bear the brunt of child raising.
- pumping can be so scary for women and keep them up at all hours but they HAVE to “ride the rollercoaster (not shaming just seeing experiences here)

To me if you’re so scared to not breastfeed that’s you don’t even look in to formula, that’s upsetting. Reading everything you all said to me this is what has changed in me:

• a sense of ease that I was SO anxious about before hand. To the point of crying.
• the realization that even without my issues i SHOULD pick EBF because I need my sanity and I need the equality with my partner to help BOTH of our sanities (esp because I take sedatives)
• Im honestly glad I can’t because I may have been to scared too have a child because of it. Having to go off medication and the pressure to do it would have ruined me and I honestly was considering adoption.

Thank you again, to everyone.

 

[kadee]

@pastorchrisparker i think this mentality comes and goes in cycles. i was born in the late 80s, as was my husband, and my siblings were also all born in the late 80s-early 90s. our mothers formula-fed all of us. and pretty much all of my friends in the same age group were formula-fed as well. i think perhaps it was because more and more women were in the workforce at that time, and formula was encouraged.

i think in recent years, with the focus on natural, organic foods and products, breastfeeding is making a comeback. also, the new flexibility in the workplace, with nursing rooms in offices and the option to work remotely seems to give this idea of "well all these perks are here, i should use them." but that's just my opinion and observation based on articles and posts i've read around breastfeeding. the two really seem to go hand-in-hand.

i was on the fence about breastfeeding, not really for the "benefits" but more like a biological curiosity. like, wow, my body grew this child for 9 months and i got mammalian boobies that have been evolutionary developed to feed him - i'm super curious! i love science! lol.

but the language around breastfeeding REALLY turned me off. read any book or any pamphlet about breastfeeding from your doctor's office, and usually one of the FIRST "benefits" is that breastfeeding HELPS YOU LOSE BABY WEIGHT FASTER! i'm sorry, what? it just strikes me as SO manipulative towards women who might already be unsure or sad about their changing bodies. ugh. (also, anecdotally, not true - i was strict FF from the beginning and lost all my baby weight by 2 weeks postpartum, while i know other women who BF and didn't lose the weight until after they weaned)

regarding attachment - my baby boy fucking loves me lol. and he LOVES his daddy, who is able to feed him as well. the division of labor between me and husband is awesome, and our child totally loves us. he's 4 months old and when we walk in his room to get him, he smiles and giggles and totally brightens up at the sight of us. he still looks up at me from his bottle when he's feeding with his big beautiful eyes and holds my thumb or strokes my boobs while he's feeding.

regarding mental health - motherhood is hard. it just is. i'm happy i made the decision to go with formula because i know how i am - i can get very bitter when i feel like i'm doing the lions share of the work. i see other moms dealing with this in my bumpers sub and facebook page now. they're exhausted from it and dealing with the frustrations of husbands who, to them, don't seem like they're pulling their weight. for me, when baby's hungry, my husband makes a bottle and sits down and feeds him. no worries, no fuss, no questions asked. it's pretty great.

regarding judgement - well, you can't make everyone happy. my family and friends know i'm formula feeding and we've gotten some raised eyebrows and "oh..."s but most of those people eventually made the switch to formula themselves for various reasons. my doctors are totally unconcerned and they're really supportive so that's what matters. and my son is killin' it in the health department. he is fed, happy, and has been sleeping through the night since 2 months old. i can deal with judgement as i'm well-rested and happy lol.

good luck in whatever you choose!