Wife feeling excluded

[aldredian]

@x902xxipher I'm sorry but to put it bluntly, your wife needs to get over it.

The compromise is you translate and tell her what you've said AFTER you're done talking in German. And she has to start paying attention when you speak to start picking up German.

Ask your wife if the situation is flipped e.g. you live in Germany and she's the only source of English input, how would SHE feel if she's been told NOT to pass on her own language to her own child? That's what she's asking of you.

While I understand her feelings, I am nervous that if we don’t do OPOL, our child’s exposure to German will be too limited and she will not learn as much as I am the only person who will be speaking German to her. I don’t have any German speaking family that lives here.

You are correct. The best chance your daughter has is if you guys do OPOL.

Here's what my husband and I do.

• I ONLY speak Mandarin to my son
• When we're altogether, I would be speaking English to my husband but the minute I speak to my son, it's in Mandarin. I find this important. I have spoken to other people where they do English family time and what ended up happening is their children started only speaking English to both parents. Remove the choice. Make it so it only feels natural speaking German to you. I've done this and so far, my son still hasn't switched to English to me even though his English now is way better since going more full-time at daycare. He even told me I'm not allowed to speak English when he heard me talking to daycare teachers.
• Even if I'm saying important stuff or disciplining my son, I would first say it in Mandarin and once I'm done, I'll tell my husband exactly what I said so he knows what's happening
• My husband would listen very carefully what I'm saying and at this point, there are times I don't even need to translate for him. He's picked up so much just by listening to us speak so often. When we're at my in-laws, there are times my son will say something in Mandarin and it would be my husband translating for his parents.

We've gotten to the point where my husband would say stuff in English to our son and then I back him up in Mandarin and vice versa.

Your wife will just need to get used to waiting until you're done speaking for you to translate to her. She also will need to start paying attention when you speak German to your daughter so she can start picking up the language.

Also, make sure you do story reading time in German as part of the bedtime routine. If your wife sits with you guys to listen, she will also pick up.

But first, you guys get through this 4th trimester cause it's really grueling.

 

[sawyerbrownlive]

@x902xxipher I totally understand your wife's initial rejection of the OPOL method, BUT if you don't speak to her at all times in German (if you live in an English-speaking country), she won't have a chance of becoming a balanced bilingual. I just shot a video about a similar issue. You can watch it here:

If you are aiming for passive bilingualism, which means that she will be able to understand you but will not reply in German, then switching once in a while to EN is ok.

Your wife needs to know one thing: this is her chance to learn along with your daughter German. If she is a little patient and puts in a little effort, she'll notice that over time she'll understand pretty much all the conversations you are having. That is what happens to me when my husband speaks Danish.

When I was little and my Swiss dad spoke to us in Swiss German, my mother used to feel left out and begged my dad to switch to Spanish. I'm infinitely thankful that my dad didn't give in and kept on using the OPOL with us. That opened so many more opportunities in my life. Your daughter will thank you too some day. As for my mother, she learned to speak German and that allowed her to communicate with my Swiss family every time we were there on vacations. I'm just saying: It's worth the effort!

Here is another video explicitly about the partner speaking in another language:

Ich hoffe es hilft dir ein bisschen weiter. :0)

 

[thefirstoftheseconds]

@x902xxipher This is not a language issue. Clearly the best option for German language acquisition is for you to speak German to the child.

This is about your wife's feelings only. Why does she feel left out? Does it matter if she's left out? Does she recognize that most of the world is multilingual and it's perfectly normal to be around people speaking a language she doesn't understand?

I think she might just need to get used to it.

Also, why is her family feeling left out more important than the father communicating in his native language with his child?

I think your wife is rather selfish in this, but that doesn't help you.

I would ask her what she thinks about the child learning only English. Make it about the child, not you and her and her family.

What is in the best interest of the child, in her opinion, your opinion, and why? Does the child deserve an opportunity to learn from both languages and both cultures? Does the child deserve to be able to speak with other Germans in German, including family? What if the child grows up to resent the fact that they were disconnected from their father's language and culture? Are you both okay with explaining that the mother's American family feeling left out is why?

 

[ativyl]

@x902xxipher She is being excluded. That's what happens. That feeling is completely valid. It's your job to repeat everything twice. It's your job to repeat everything twice. Like that, but in 2 different languages. It's annoying, but it's what you have to do. Not just safety things. Everything until she feels less excluded. My family has been doing this for 14 years this coming Tuesday (my baby is so big!!!!!), and I still sometimes feel excluded. My second language is getting better, so my husband doesn't have to repeat things he says to the younger kids, but when he and our teenager start talking particle physics or something, I might ask them to translate.

As for now, 1st and most importantly, get her help with ppd. Also, maybe you can teach her some nursey rhymes or kids songs in German.

Edit: don't listen to anyone calling your wife selfish, and I can't express how much that makes my blood boil. Good luck to both of you.

 

[alearose]

@ativyl Translating everything takes away the necessity of learning the other language. I really disagree strongly with your statement that “it’s what you have to do.”

 

[ativyl]

@alearose OK. I really don't think the little bit of repeating he'll be doing until mom figures out things like "do you have a poopy diaper" and "are you hungry" and children's songs will set the 7 week old back so much in terms of language and is worth it for the mom's mental health, but lots of people in this thread have had a lot of wonderful things to say about her, so maybe that's not a concern. Do you have another suggestion for how to make her feel included in family bonding?

 

[alearose]

@ativyl I think like some others have said, it’s a good opportunity for her to learn more German, and teaching her can be a way to bond. My situation is different because I studied my husband’s language (Spanish) a bit in high school and college, so I had some more background to build from. However, I’ve never reached a high level of proficiency, and my husband speaking to my daughters (oldest is 2.5 years) has helped level up my Spanish a lot.

As I said above, translating everything can impede learning because it removes the need to pay attention when the target language is being spoken. It’s better for the learners to try to seek understanding through the context first and then translating just key words as necessary.

 

[ativyl]

@alearose Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a little unreasonable to suggest to a mom of a newborn who is suffering from ppd and feels excluded to just learn a foreign language in her free time. And that doesn't do anything to solve her feeling excluded now. As I said above, the kid's 7 weeks old. I really don't think it's going to be a problem in the few days it will take for the mom to figure out she doesn't need a play-by-play of baby talk. It's a stop gap to get her to feel included. I'm just really, really shocked by how many people are prioritizing the language skills of a newborn over the mental health of the mom (or even those (NOT YOU) who called her selfish). Because if mom's not doing well, the newborn's going to have much bigger problems than "my dad repeated something in two languages for a few days so it took me a little longer to learn German than other bilingual babies."

edit: I'm wondering if you also mean repeating things will impede the mom's language development? In which case, if she wasn't picking it up from context of hearing him speak to their child, what do you recommend he do?

 

[alearose]

@ativyl Your perspective makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I think the concern from others is the negative reaction to dad speaking German becoming a long-term thing, in which case it really can be a big disservice to the child as well as the father. The nice thing is that the baby starts with no ability in the language either, so it’s not so hard to try to keep up in the beginning (my toddler has already long surpassed my Spanish abilities though! ).

 

[alearose]

@ativyl Re: your edit, I mean for both the child and the mom. For what the mom could do, I would recommend asking questions. Like I said, this is maybe too “easy for me to say” because I already knew a lot of the vocabulary in my husband’s language, and thus it is easier for me to pick out the few things he says that I don’t understand. But, sometimes I say “does ___ mean __?” or just “what does __ mean?” So he does translate some things, but only when I initiate it.

For someone with very low proficiency in the second language, I would recommend starting with very simple things like a picture book with no more than a few words per page and reading it together with the baby. Or just going around the kitchen and having the native speaker teach the non-speaker the names for the foods and appliances in their language, for example.

 

[roberto96]

@x902xxipher You need to prioritize German.

Otherwise your family is going to feel left out not being able to communicate with little one.

Also what does your wife think she's being left out of? Kid is 6 weeks old...

 

[alearose]

@x902xxipher Your wife and her family are always welcome to learn German; they don’t need to be “excluded.” I have a hard time sympathizing with that attitude. My husband talks to our daughters in Spanish which none of my family is fluent in (most only recognize a few words), but they are happy for our kids to have the opportunity to be raised bilingual. It is, of course, wise to be sensitive to your wife’s feelings, but I do think your inclinations to try to maximize your child’s exposure to German are correct.

 

[jrbuckley]

@x902xxipher You’ve gotten a lot of replies here, but I wanted to add my perspective as a bilingual speech language pathologist and a parent who is raising a child using a minority language.

• One suggestion would be to teach your wife some German phrases that you say to your child a lot - not for her to say them but for her to understand them. You can pick 2-3 phrases a week related to a specific routine (e.g. bed time) and use those phrases in German during the routine with the rest in English. That way your wife is familiar with what you’re saying and bonus - she gets practice with comprehensible input in German. You can build on this approach, adding phrases as time goes on.
• This is tedious, but when I’m around people who don’t speak the minority language, I say everything twice. Once in Spanish, once in English. “Estás lista ahora? Are you ready?” I usually don’t give an exact translation but instead repeat the general message in English so that family members know what’s going on. If I were in your position, I would likely take this approach until my partner felt comfortable being out of the loop.
• Your wife may be more sensitive right now due to hormones and PPD. She may feel differently later on. Personally, I was so deep in PPA and finding my bearings that I didn’t start speaking to my daughter in Spanish until she was 6 months old. It was just too much. From a speech and language perspective, you have a few months before your child will be becoming more attune to the specifics of speech/language. Don’t feel like if you put German on the back burner for a few months that you can’t bring it up.

 

[zhiff]

@x902xxipher If everyone speaks English and only you speak German, the one who would be left out is you. You can always speak English to each other but keep speaking German to baby. It would be a missed opportunity to not speak it. Your time with the baby is more limited than hers. Obviously, be mindful of her feelings and watch for depression. That aside, kids are so good at differentiating. Your daughter will learn both and speak to you im German and wife in English with no issue.

 

[katrina2017]

@x902xxipher I think your wife is a little oppressive and obsessive.

I am in her same situation and never felt "excluded". Of course my wife has the common sense to include other people with the common language when this is appropriate/needed.

 

[ativyl]

@katrina2017 You have ppd? I'm so sorry. I hope you get the help you need. Both with the baby and mentally. It's very brave of you to speak out about it.

 

[katrina2017]

@ativyl Post partum depression? Probably not.

 

[ativyl]

@katrina2017 Oh. You said you were in the same situation, so I assumed your judgment was coming from there

 

[auntynet]

@x902xxipher I haven’t read any of the other responses yet but I currently have a 5 months old daughter and my wife / her family speak a South Indian language.

I’ve felt a minor amount of exclusion (in my own head) during certain conversations in the language after we got married and that has been the driving force for me to start learning that language.

I understand that their language isn’t going anywhere. And I want my daughter to have this cultural background and be bilingual.

Maybe try to help your wife see this as an opportunity to fully dive into language learning with your child. And as she learns more. She’ll understand more.

In the meantime, quickly translate convos to her that you’re having with your child or give a synopsis afterwards. That way there’s no lost info.

 

[mcv222]

@x902xxipher Please speak German to your kid. Your wife will eventually learn. I had the same conversation with my partner many times as he also felt excluded but I didn’t give up. Kids are perfectly trilingual and learning more languages and hopefully will become poliglot. Speak with your wife and with time she will understand some German.