Toddler loves pushing my newly walking baby and I feel lost

[diademjewel]

My toddler (2.5) says he thinks it is fun to push his baby brother (11mo). Often times the baby will be walking around and toddler will run up to him and powerfully shove him to the ground where the baby will often hit his head. This will happen within a minute of me being out of direct reach of them even while still under direct supervision. I am not leaving them alone together.

After watching a bunch of gentle discipline info, here are my current steps if he pushes the baby down:
1. No big startling reaction
2. Tend to only baby at first and make sure he is okay, don’t give toddler attention for a minute
3. Say to toddler “he is crying, let’s make sure he is okay” and I will say “sorry you got hurt, are you okay?” and usually he will come over and say sorry and give Baby a hug without me prompting him
4. Validate toddler “it looks like you got excited and you wanted to push Baby. It’s okay to be excited, it’s not okay to push. Pushing hurts. If you are excited, you can stomp the ground, clap your hands, or roar like a t-Rex” usually Toddler just says “no! I don’t want to do those things” and I will just repeat what I said again because I don’t know what else to say.

Is there anything else we can be doing? It’s been about 3 weeks of this method and it doesn’t seem to be making progress. I’m afraid this will lead to issues for my Baby, or injure him. Tonight he cried when he saw Toddler coming towards him after being pushed down two times in about 15 minutes.

Edit: A lot of people are rightly pointing out that the consequences step is missing from our method. I forgot to add that I was previously bringing the toddler to a quiet boring non-bedroom space for a timeout after he pushed. Then what he started to do was push, then run away and hide in his timeout spot instead of repairing. This concerns me since I think it is an avoidant response to try and run away when you make a mistake. (Something I myself am working to not do while healing my own disorganized attachment) This is why I’m hoping to get different ideas from this thread.

I don’t currently have a way to separate them where I can both see them while also trying to make dinner (the time where this often occurs.) I would rather not put the baby in a container since he is just trying to live his best life walking around the house.

I have been thinking that I might just have to stop dinner and pause while I hold the toddler in my lap boringly and tell him I need to keep them both safe for a few minutes. Maybe it’ll be boring enough that he doesn’t want to push anymore. Thoughts appreciated!

Edit 2: we also don’t use any screens and both kids get one on one time with both parents every day

Edit 3: huge thank you to everyone who has provided insight and advice, this is just what I was hoping for. I brought out a pack-n-play which fits in our living space to place the toddler in for a little while when he is having trouble being safe. This means he is not visually or verbally separated from us but has a “boring” spot as a consequence for pushing. I will continue to emphasize what he can do that is safe. Someone else has the idea that I can make it a “baby-free” space so that he has somewhere to “get away” if he feels touched out by the baby. So I will add a few things to it to make it feel like a space for him. Hopefully we start seeing some progress soon!

 

[sunsetrose]

@diademjewel May get downvoted but… Gentle parenting doesn’t mean zero consequences.

You’re doing such a great job, but imo I would not be making physical violence so acceptable and id say something like “if you push baby then you won’t be allowed to play with him because we cannot hurt people’ …

And then FOLLOW THROUGH

If you don’t think that will be motivation then think of something logical to be the consequence but he needs to understand that’s absolutely not ok.

He’s going to face the natural consequences in real life, eg pushing a playmate and then losing the playmate or seeing retaliation. Arm him now rather than him learning the hard way later.

Also as much as we want to gently parent, where’s the gentleness in this scenario for the baby?

 

[summer37087]

@sunsetrose

“if you push baby then you won’t be allowed to play with him because we cannot hurt people’ …

And then FOLLOW THROUGH

EXACTLY. This is the advice a child psychologist told me when my toddler was hitting me, set hard boundaries and then enforce them. For example, if he would hit me when we weren't at home, I would say we're now going home and I wouldn't budge no matter how hard he cried. After a few tries of this the hitting stopped all together, after months of not going anywhere with just explaining and pretending to be sad when he hit me. It's not fun to see your child cry and it breaks my heart, but honestly sometimes there's no other way and they have to learn that their actions have consequences.

 

[diademjewel]

@summer37087 The thing is they aren’t always playing together when it happens. Often times they are just doing their own thing and then the toddler will go over and push the baby. I commented below but I tried doing timeouts and he would keep pushing the baby but instead of staying and making a repair he would run away to his timeout spot.

 

[angeldawn]

@diademjewel Is it possible to have them separated by some barrier? I'm an early childhood educator and our pushy kids get taken out of the playroom into another, adjacent space separated by a gate. I realize this might not be possible in a house with a single adult present.

 

[diademjewel]

@angeldawn With the layout of our house I can’t currently do that without removing him from view, but if we got another set of gate fencing we could make a fenced area for the toddler perhaps. Or maybe we just need to break out the pack n play for him.

I want to avoid shutting him somewhere alone since my parent used that style with me which I found very damaging.

 

[angeldawn]

@diademjewel Yes don't shut him away out of sight! But if you have a gate or a pack n play, I would use that. It's important your younger child doesn't have to feel fear in their own home.

And don't feel bad about a pushy toddler, it's common and it has nothing to do with your parenting. Some kids are just born with no chill and it takes a few years for impulse control to kick in

 

[diademjewel]

@angeldawn I got out the pack n play! It is definitely hard to learn impulse control, but I know he can do it since he used to bite us all the time and I taught him what to do instead. He is definitely full of boisterous energy and doesn’t always know what do to with it.

 

[peruss]

@diademjewel I’ve also heard of using a learning tower as a timeout spot. My own 2.5yo would climb out of a pack n play or a tower but it works for some people!

 

[ellimae]

@diademjewel Pack 'n plays are a lifesaver! Use it

 

[steve2219]

@diademjewel Baby Corral is the way.

 

[monik]

@sunsetrose THIS!!! Why are we trying to let violence get a pass? Children need to have consequences or that kid is gonna grow up thinking he gets a pass when he intentionally hurts people. ffs gentle parenting doesn't mean permissive parenting. Not to mention he could push baby into a table corner or seriously, gravely injure him.

 

[momrn3]

@sunsetrose Agreed.

Small story time.
Pushing can be extremely nasty. My eldest pushed my youngest earlier this year and he fell off the couch and hit his head on a cupboard at grandmas house. (I wasn’t there. They were supervised though, grandma literally went to get a drink from the kitchen a few steps away.)

The damage of this fall ended up needing 2 staples at the back of his head. All the “gentle parents” were telling me oh he didn’t do it on purpose and it’s still lack of impulse and grandma had to pay better attention.

That didn’t sit well with me. Cause that implies we literally need to be watching our kids 24/7 and not even step away for a bathroom break etc. and I just need to talk to him about it a lot to make him realize how his pushing hurt the youngest.

I decided nope. Cause it could have been way more serious. So I took away screen time that weekend and every time I was asked for screen time I explained why he couldn’t. Granted he’s 4 and still pushes I’ve consistently taken him to the room for a time out every time since then. And the pushing has gotten way less. He usually pushes when he wants a toy so I’ve also been helping him learn to ask, and swap toys but still ultimately accept when his brother says no.

When it comes to violence we go for a time out and talk about how we can solve the issue in the future without hurting.

 

[alvinroy]

@sunsetrose 100% agree with all of this.

 

[diademjewel]

@sunsetrose I agree and I’m hoping to get ideas for consequences by making this post. What do you suggest the consequence should be? I tried doing timeouts and he started pushing the baby and then running away to his timeout spot on his own.

 

[psk567]

@diademjewel Maybe it’s time to start working backwards. I’d start wondering why he’s pushing baby. He seems willing to go to time out. He seems compassionate towards baby’s cries. Is he actually needing space? Does he feel upset baby is “encroaching” on him?

I’d make a baby free space for him. Like maybe a little nook somewhere baby can’t get to. And then the next time he pushes I’d come sit with baby so they can’t get pushed and talk to toddler. “You pushed baby. Do you need space? Go over to (area) and take some time to yourself. Next time, when you’re feeling bothered use your words and we will help you. You can tell baby “Not now.” You can tell mama “I need space” and I will come help you, ok? You cannot push him, because he will get hurt. But you can have space.”

 

[diademjewel]

@psk567 That’s an interesting idea. I have been teaching him about asking the baby for space and he has been using that phrase a lot so maybe giving him a baby-free space could be really helpful for him. I’ll have to think on what that can be.

 

[ellimae]

@diademjewel You can make the pack 'n play the baby free space!

Sorry for spamming your inbox, maybe scroll down and read the rest first for context

 

[diademjewel]

@ellimae That’s a good idea. I got the pack n play out this morning after reading everyone’s ideas and we have used it several times already since the kids got back from daycare early a couple hours ago. I can put some things in it for him to play with in there.