Pro-Birth v Pro-Life

@ryandog Maybe not all pro-life people think like this but here are my 2 cents. I am pro-life.

I believe we should have federally paid maternity and paternity leave for a MINIMUM of 3 months. However, I truly believe it should be able to be 6-12 months. Pelvic floor therapy should be paid for by insurance after birth. Women should not have to pay these astronomical prices for giving birth. In fact, I believe we should have universal health care. I think childcare should be affordable instead of the ridiculous prices it costs. CPS has an issue of taking kids away from families that simply need help financially and we should offer these families that help instead of displacing children. I think adoption should not be so expensive so that more people have the option to adopt. I think birth control should be much more accessible and free, but again universal healthcare should be implemented. Regardless of the religious beliefs of many people in the US, including myself, I think same-sex couples should be able to adopt and foster children the same as heterosexual couples. There should be no limitations due to them being a same-sex couple. This is just a snapshot of my beliefs and how I consider myself pro-life.

ETA: I am against abortion not because of anything in the bible but because I truly as seeing it killing a human. The first trimester of pregnancy is 13 weeks. Most women find out they are pregnant between approximately 8-14 weeks if they were not intending to become pregnant and did not suspect a late period was pregnancy. A fetus becomes viable outside the womb at 22-24 weeks gestation. If there are complications to pregnancy for a woman she is able to have a c-section or induced vaginal birth once the fetus is viable. The baby can then be taken to the NICU to take care of them. Again, I believe healthcare should be free so disregard the costs of NICU and c-sections here. Most complications in pregnancy begin in the 2nd or 3rd trimester.

As far as ectopic pregnancies go, I do not consider the treatment to cure this as an abortion. The abortion's sole purpose is to kill an unborn child. The treatment to cure an ectopic pregnancy just happens to be unfortunately ending the pregnancy to save the mother's life. I wish everyone pro-life looked at it this way but I know many don't.

Also aborting a child because they may have a disability, that is incredibly ableist. I would never abort a child simply because they had down syndrome or something else. In fact my child has a disability and I love him just the same.
 
@ryandog This is a pretty big strawman fallacy, bc being pro-life doesn’t mean you’re anti taking care of children… those are two different issues and shouldn’t be looped together.
 
@wildflower1113 She is saying that "pro-life" is a misnomer--if a person wants to call themselves pro-life, they should support the full scope of life, rather than only ensuring that babies that are conceived are born. You are correct that being anti-abortion does not mean that you are against these other things, but a lot of "pro-life" people are.
 
@wildflower1113 Unfortunately, the party that’s trying to kill Roe v. Wade also tries to obstruct any kind of welfare or health assistance. Except for corporate welfare, of course. They love that.

If you’re willing to abolish safe abortion access without any of those things, that is the outcome.
 
@wildflower1113 I'm not sure what country you're in but in the US, Republican law makers who oppose abortion (in Texas it's illegal) also cut funding for public schools, social services, healthcare, or any entity which assists those in need including single parents. They're hypocrites plain and simple.
 
@wildflower1113 From an isolated, simplistic view you might be right. Yet from the real world perspective of "you can't support this policy/law without also supporting these others" you're dead wrong. The vast majority of policies and politicians that are pro-life also oppose measures to ensure quality of life for all children such as providing proper housing, healthcare, and food. Therefore I would argue that those two different issues rather should be looped together.

It would be nice if we could discuss just one issue logically without having to drag so many other arguments into the conversation, but unfortunately the real world doesn't work like that because what we're talking about is real world situations and real world decisions that do factor in all those other things.
 
@ryandog I am not sure if I am pro life, but I don’t support abortions as a first line defense against pregnancy. Now if you’re very young, have been raped, your baby will kill you or it will die regardless and you know 100% that it will, I understand. However, if you just are irresponsible, have sex Willy Nilly without a care, no you shouldn’t be able to get an abortion. I think there should be some hard set and go limits. I know someone who has had six abortions in the last YEAR. SIX! That’s ridiculous and they are a horrible person. I do support helping any and all families, and I’m fine with giving portions of my paychecks to help those in need even though I’m not rich myself.
 
@jacobh2 I mean personally, I’d get fixed if I couldn’t reliably use birth control and didn’t want kinds. So if I had six opps in a year, and I killed them all, yes thatd make me a horrible person.
 
@lmrsandmanl That’s not an answer to the question?? Do you think the better alternative is bringing 6 babies into the world knowing their mother won’t be what she needs them to be, or knowing she can’t give them the life they deserve? It’s a genuine question.
 
@ryandog Everytime I have heard she was pregnant I have offered to pay for her prenatal care, she could live with me and I’d feed her, let her do whatever she wants and stay at my house in her own room, and I’d pay for the birth and her after care. She flat out refused and said she’s not ruining her body for any clump of cells.
 
@lmrsandmanl So… you’re trying to use her for an under the table adoption and she doesn’t want to participate? What’s your relation to this person? Is this like a cousin on drugs that you just can’t say no to? None of this is making sense? Help her NOT get pregnant if it’s gotten this far and troubles you this much. Take her to get an iud or something.
 
@ryandog Are you forgetful? You literally just told me to adopt the next one 🤡 how tf would anything be “under the table?” Do you know anything about adoption? It’s a long expensive court process. Nothing under the table about it. It’s standard to pay for medical treatment of mother and child when you plan to adopt a child while the mother is pregnant. 🤦‍♀️
 
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