Parenting discussion w/ husband

gavenv

New member
My husband and I are expecting our daughter in early December. I am all about gentle parenting but he doesn't know much about it. He agrees with spanking depending on the situation and I do not. I want to have a good discussion with him about our personal views on parenting so we can get a better understanding of each other and even try to compromise on stuff. I have some scenarios listed out and how I would handle them, as well as asking how he would handle the same situation.

So far what I have listed to talk about are: A scenario where she is 1.5YO and involving impulse control, a scenario where she is 2 and doesn't want to leave the park, spanking, emotional regulation, and an article that talks about gentle parenting

Anything I should add?
 
@gavenv Where exactly is there room to compromise with spanking?

Spanking has been illegal in Denmark in almost 30 years. Much longer in Sweden. It still happens, but it is NOT considered good parenting. It's considered abuse. My son's daycare has yearly refresher courses on how to detect signs of abuse whether it leaves marks or not, and the leader is absolutely cold as to why the parents might have done it - it gets reported to the authorities.

There are plenty of people here who manage to raise well regulated and functioning adults without spanking.

What does your husband hope to achieve? What lesson will spanking or hitting teach the child except that people who are physically bigger can get away with physical abuse?
 
@chamberlain94 I didn't get regular spanking, but my father did slap me two or three times when I was around elementary school age. I still remember that it didn't teach me to behave or be a better person, it taught me to be afraid of him.

It wasn't nearly frequent enough to dominate or destroy my relationship with him. He normally wasn't an aggressive or domineering person at all, and I have a lot of positive memories of him, too – but those couple of slaps were still enough put a strain on our relationship that never quite went away.

TL;DR: Slapping/spanking doesn't solve anything. It only creates more problems.
 
@chamberlain94
Spanking has been illegal in Denmark in almost 30 years. Much longer in Sweden. It still happens, but it is NOT considered good parenting. It's considered abuse. My son's daycare has yearly refresher courses on how to detect signs of abuse whether it leaves marks or not, and the leader is absolutely cold as to why the parents might have done it - it gets reported to the authorities.

You're underselling it. It's also social radon. Nobody wants to fraternise with a child abuser. You're basically ostracised – unless you're hanging out with others who have done the same, but then your social life consists of the kind of scum who would do such things, and that's even worse.
 
@kickthichphattiren689 That's a fair point!!! It's a perfect way to get shunned. It's the type of action that makes others think "what (else) is wrong with you since you think that is okay". Nobody wants to have such friends themselves or send their children to playdates in such a home.
 
@gavenv You may want to share this American Academy of Pediatrics position paper on corporal punishment (spoiler: don't).

The consequences associated with parental corporal punishment are summarized as follows:
  • corporal punishment of children younger than 18 months of age increases the likelihood of physical injury;
  • repeated use of corporal punishment may lead to aggressive behavior and altercations between the parent and child and may negatively affect the parent-child relationship;
  • corporal punishment is associated with increased aggression in preschool and school-aged children;
  • experiencing corporal punishment makes it more, not less, likely that children will be defiant and aggressive in the future;
  • corporal punishment is associated with an increased risk of mental health disorders and cognition problems;
  • the risk of harsh punishment is increased when the family is experiencing stressors, such as family economic challenges, mental health problems, intimate partner violence, or substance abuse; and
  • spanking alone is associated with adverse outcomes, and these outcomes are similar to those in children who experience physical abuse.
The association between corporal punishment and adverse adult health outcomes was examined in a 2017 report that analyzed original data from the 1998 Adverse Childhood Experiences Study, which recommended that spanking be considered as an additional independent risk factor, similar in nature and effect to other adverse childhood experiences. In their analysis of the original 1998 Adverse Childhood Experiences study data, the investigators found that spanking was associated with increased odds of suicide attempts, moderate-to-heavy drinking, and substance use disorder in adulthood independent of the risks associated with having experienced physical and emotional abuse.

I'm not going to lie—I would find it hard to coparent with my partner if they thought it was acceptable to be violent with our children. While I appreciate that you're trying to find a middle ground here, it's also okay (maybe even necessary) to draw a firm line in the sand when it comes to protecting the physical and mental health of your children, even from your partner. I'm not saying divorce him—but it's okay to say "I refuse to parent like that so we'll need to find an alternative that doesn't involve us hitting our children" rather than "let's find a compromise."
 
@gavenv Maybe this is just me, but... there are some things that I wouldn't dignify with a discussion. Like, spanking isn't a "let's hear both sides, because they're both equal and right" kind of thing. Sort of like those cringey country music videos from the 2000s where a former KKK member and a Black person sit down together (I think I'm thinking of Kenny Chesney "Some People Change" lol).

Anyway, my husband floated spanking as something he thought was okay, and I told him no, no way, never, and don't bring it up again or else. I told him to do his own research. It's not my job to do his parenting for him! He knows he can say goodbye to his kids and me if he ever considers spanking. (He has seen the light, lol. I think he genuinely understands why it's a bad idea now.)

I am all for having a sympathetic talk about where he's coming from, how he was raised, where his views on spanking originate, etc. Just not really feeling the open discussion about corporal punishment itself. That, to me, is a no, case closed, that box ain't opening, thank you.

Anyway, just how I do things. Good luck!
 
@ctay6318 While I get what you're saying, I do think OP's approach could help, in that sometimes people need to know what the alternatives are. Thinking through specific scenarios, and talking about what you can do to address them instead of spanking could help OP's husband understand the "how" of no spanking, even if OP is firm about that boundary.
 
@thickandthin Yeah, on thinking about it, I think I'd favor a gentle approach pre-baby. It's just hard to picture everything before baby arrives, especially for fathers. So much can change once baby comes!

(I remember all the things I swore I'd do, before my first was born. My husband, too. Turns out we're both giant softies, lol.)

Anyway, good luck with the new baby, OP!
 
@gavenv I highly recommend learning what is developmentally appropriate for children. Many parents have expectations that are unrealistic for a child's age.

Common examples I encounter:

Impulse control. Impulse control does not begin to develop until 3.5-4 years old. A 2 year old may understand that they should not touch something, that does not mean they can resist the urge to touch something.

Empathy. Empathy does not begin to develop until 2 years. At 2 years old, a child begins to understand that other people have feelings. It takes much longer to understand that their actions have consequences and can hurt others. Even at age 5, children do not routinely stop to think about another person's perspective. However, around age 5, they can begin to understand hypothetical situations such as, "how would you feel if another child took your toy?"

Remorse. Children typically do not feel remorse until age 6-7. A 3 year old that doesn't feel remorseful for hurting another child is not a sociopath. They're just 3, that's normal.

Throwing, biting, pulling hair, and hitting. Toddlers are violent, being violent back does not put an end to the violence. An 18 month old cannot connect you pulling their hair and that hurting to it hurts you when they pull your hair. At 18 months, they don't even understand that you can feel pain. Toddlers are also hard wired to throw things. It's very important to humans evolutionarily (we're the only species that can throw objects with decent accuracy and it has been very important to our survival), so this is hard wired into toddlers. They learn a lot of very important things by throwing objects, such as how gravity works, how objects interact with different surfaces, how to predict where a thrown object will land, etc.

Which isn't to say that these topics cannot be addressed before those ages. It is important to understand what your child is capable of. I tell my toddlers all day long not to hit each other. My expectations for compliance are low because they are not at a point developmentally where they can understand.

I also highly recommend talking about gentle discipline and what that means. It's a hard thing for a lot of people to wrap their heads around. Gentle Parenting is not permissive parenting. Gentle discipline is very different. It's not punitive. It is not based on obedience. You're raising a future adult and giving your child the tools to be a well adjusted adult, not an obedient child. It's a lot of preventing situations where your child is likely to fail. If a child is too tempted to mess with a forbidden item, move it. If you know the answer to a question, don't ask. It just sets a child up to lie and doesn't benefit anything. My toddlers aren't great about holding hands so I use child leashes.

Also, most "bad" behavior is unmet needs.

Gentle Parenting doesn't mean you never let your child cry or be upset. It doesn't mean only kindly asking your child to do something. My kid doesn't want to leave the park? "I understand you don't want to leave because you're having fun. I'm glad you're having a good time. That sucks when you have to stop doing something fun. It's really frustrating when you don't get your way. Unfortunately, we are going home now, so it's time to get in the car. You can walk with me and hold my hand, or I can carry you."

My twins throw tantrums when I don't let them steal each other's food. I don't give in. We power through them. I stay with them, support them, rub their backs or hold them. "Yes, this is very frustrating. I know that you want [twin's] food. That's their food. You can't have their food, you have your own food." After a couple minutes, they get over it and go back to eating their own food. When we go out to eat, they don't sit near each other to avoid this problem. I try to keep them separated at home, but it's harder when it's just me.
 
@tonyp Thank you, I'm glad it made sense.

Because gentle parenting doesn't have a concrete "playbook," so to speak, I've been sitting with the concept for a bit to figure out what my interpretation is, how I want to implement it for my family, and how to hold a space for my partner so that he feels heard and that I'm not trampling on his parenting or railroading my methods as the only correct to parent. That last part is a bit tricky, but I think I've been successful.

That's probably important to note too: there isn't a specific "right" way to go gentle parenting. There are some things that are universal (ie no corporal punishment). Some gentle parents are surprisingly punitive, and I think that's because it's difficult to think of discipline in non-punitive terms. Personally, at this time, I don't believe in using imposed consequences. I don't anticipate scenarios where I think they would be beneficial for my kids. However, there may be situations I haven't considered that may change my mind in the future.
 
@2the1whojudgesjustly Totally agree about the punitive part being challenging! Sometimes we’ll run into situations where I find myself racking my brain in a panic to think of what the “natural consequence” of an action might be where there is no obvious one. For example, when she picks her nose! Like, okay I guess it’s not something that will cause you danger and I’m realistically telling her not to because it’s kind of gross and a social faux pas, but those concepts are meaningless to a 3 year old. So I just recoil and remind her that it’s not polite and accept that I’ll be saying that over and over for a long time. Haha
 
@tonyp Sorry, I'm going to nitpick real quick. You're thinking of logical consequences. Natural consequences happen on their own, like if your child throws a toy and it breaks. If you're looking for a consequence to impose for picking her nose, then you're looking for a logical consequence

This is a big reason why I don't agree with imposed consequences. Children don't need to be punished (I'm including logical consequences here) to learn a lesson.

Something that is very important to me is that expectations must be clearly communicated and reasonable before you can expect someone to comply with them. This applies to everyone, not just my kids. So when my expectations aren't met, I start with is this reasonable and did I clearly communicate this? After I confirm this, then investigate, why weren't my expectations met? Then what can we do to meet my expectations?

Around age 3.5-4, impulse control begins to develop, and she's going to need to learn not to pick her nose for hand hygiene reasons (well realistically, when and how to appropriately pick her nose but that's likely a lesson for when she's older) so that isn't an unreasonable expectation. If she's newly 3, then I'd keep my bar of meeting my expectations lower. So next why is she doing it? Maybe it's fun, maybe she doesn't like having boogers. Okay, now, what can we do to make it easier to meet this expectation? Probably discuss that we shouldn't pick our noses because we don't want to spread germs. Then offer alternatives, compromises, and/or other solutions. Teach her to blow her nose instead and wash her hands after blowing or picking her nose. Then remind her until you die lol.
 
@2the1whojudgesjustly Oh yes, we’ve done literally everything you’ve listed and then some. She actually has made progress, too— excitedly shouting “I can pick my nose here! We’re in the bathroom!” when we take a potty break. When she isn’t in the bathroom she can use a tissue if she needs one, but I’m sure you can imagine what free reign of the tissue box quickly turned into 🙃. I did mean logical consequence, but it seems like there still isn’t one that could be actively imposed at this point, developmental factors considered. Any time she does it, we wash hands, but she enjoys washing hands so that isn’t registering as inconvenient (perhaps even a type of reward!).

All this to say this is admittedly the very smallest of fish we fry, and the most useful skills I’ve engaged here have been my own self-regulation. That is to say I try to not get too hung up on stuff like this (there are many things like this), and it helps keep my perspective productive.
 
@tonyp I imagine it'll be something that will develop with time and maturity. I understand about the tissues. I've recently had to hide the baby wipes for a similar reason. Enjoying hand washing might even be a good thing, given the importance of hand hygiene.

Completely agree with self-regulation and perspective. Something I've noticed, particularly in my gentle parenting group on Facebook, is that parents take a lot of their kids' actions extremely personally and interpret them as having malicious intent. In my experience, gentle parenting is a ton of work on the parent's end, and that isn't a bad thing. It takes a ton of self-regulation, patience, tenacity, and perspective. I struggle with getting hung up on things too. They like to feed the dog, which means the dog is up in their business when we're eating and I can't keep the dog out of the kitchen. But I have to remind myself that they don't understand and they don't have the impulse control to resist.
 
Back
Top