Neighbor’s child crying for hours in the early morning. Is this normal?

[ashmarie]

Hi all. Apologies if this isn’t the wrong sub. I recently moved into a new apartment that I love but the walls are kind of thin. Usually no problem. I also don’t have children so pardon my ignorance. I started to notice at around 2-4am I can hear a child crying upstairs. Like screaming hysterical. It can last up to 3 hours sometimes. I usually have to put in earplugs. At first I thought it was an infant but then I heard it screaming ‘mommy’ and ‘dada’ so I think it’s gotta be at least 1 or 2? Is this normal? Last night it sounded so upsetting I wondered if I should be calling someone? It seems like the parents are ignoring it... is this a healthy tactic? I just don’t know enough about early childhood development to know if I should butt in. I do not want to cause any problems for parents just trying their best but it’s also disturbing both my sleep and my psyche because of how upset the child sounds. I wonder if I’m the only neighbor hearing this or just the only one thinking it could be a problem? Any thoughts from parents out there? Thanks!

UPDATE: Thanks everyone for the comments. I’ve learned a lot! It does seem like they were sleep training but the child was definitely crying longer than what seems to be normal based on experiences from commenters. Thankfully, I haven’t heard the crying in a few days so it’s either worked or they gave in and the kid is back in their bed lol. I hope it’s the former for their sake!

 

[ampersandman]

@ashmarie Given the age and the fact he/she is crying out for parents vs screaming “no” they are probably trying to sleep train the child to sleep on his/her own. There are different methods, but it sounds like they could be going cold turkey. It can take a week or two, but some kids are very resistant or if the parents give in periodically, they could prolong the time it takes. There’s always a chance they are neglecting the kid, but if the crying is only in the wee hours and it’s only been a few days, they’re probably trying to get the kid out of their bed.

Edit: Some parents do feel that sleep training is neglectful / harmful to kids.

 

[charlie84]

@ampersandman When we first tried sleep training with our eldest when he was 1 or 2 he would get so upset he would vomit. Sitting with him over cleaning up and changing everything was the lesser of two evils. I do not miss those days.

 

[laird]

@charlie84 Standing at the door crying so hard he would pee himself. Needed to change the carpet anyway.

 

[stronglady]

@laird Not intentional, but our ikea rug doesn’t quite reach the nursery door so there’s a few inches of hardwood there. My son peed on another door yesterday so, yeah. Have I mentioned that ikea rug is getting incinerated as soon as he’s potty trained?

 

[laird]

@stronglady We had just moved at this point. Definitely waited until we were through that stage and changed the second floor. It's really nice now, all the same color, previous owners had odd taste.

 

[katrina2017]

@ampersandman Sleep training is tougher on the parents than the kids, IMO. It works though.

 

[louise28]

@katrina2017 I can’t do it I’m weak lol

 

[katrina2017]

@louise28 It's really tough, you feel like going in there and holding him in your arms. We did sleep training for almost 5 days. Each night was better and better. He ended up sleeping so well after, we noticed he was more rested and overall less grumpy during the day. Night time became a good time for everyone at home. Read plenty on it, if it's not how you want to deal with it, it's really ok.

 

[katrina2017]

We did this and I’m pretty sure I cried as much as the baby the first night. Luckily it only took 3 nights to have him sleeping through the night. I’m so happy we did it bc it worked quickly, but I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to do it. It’s tough

 

[jannieb]

@ampersandman I do feel like it is neglect and it has been proven by neuroscience that leaving a child crying alone for a long period of time actually affect their brain. I could never do it with my kid. Never have. YET not all parent are properly educated on the matter, some kids have more difficult sleeping patterns than others and it's "what's always been done" SO I don't judge parents who are brave enough to not respond to their screaming baby for hours at end because they believe it's the way to go. I am not being ironic, it takes enormous courage and goes against all our instincts, I know I couldn't do it.

 

[iqoretyby]

@jannieb Thing is you aren't leaving your child alone to cry for long periods. The longest my kid managed was about half an hour on the first night. Then it got progressively shorter every night until we could put him down with no crying at all and now he goes straight to sleep. Show me the evidence that that is in any way harmful. If a child cries for "hours and hours" and it never improves sleep training probably isn't for them or (and this is more likely) he's being put down too early. We started at 9pm and progressively pulled it back till we got to 7.30, but it took a good few weeks.

I've always been a lousy sleeper and I watch my son being able to put himself to sleep within minutes and I can't help wondering whether I'd be better at it had I been trained as a baby?

 

[jannieb]

@iqoretyby Well 30 mins already is a very long time to be crying without getting any response... Also depending on the method, parents can be instructed to leave their kids to cry it out for hours and hours.
The thing with sleep training is that you never actually train your kid to sleep. You train them to understand they won't get a response to their crying so ultimately they will just stop calling for your help/presence.
I get why parents feel the need to train their children to have consistent sleep patterns. We're all humans who also have lives and jobs and we want to be able to have some alone adult time in the evening and be able to sleep enough hours straight to not feel like we've been through an entire cycle in a washing machine every morning. I know I do! I was lucky enough to have a kid who would sleep through the night by 2 months old so so sleep training was never a necessity in my household, but I still believe sleep patterns are a natural curve and at some points all kids naturally regulate themselves.
I also know there are plenty of middle ground methods between no training and the crying out method which are quite gentle and can help families who really struggle with bedtime for various reasons. It's by no mean a black or white situation. But in the particular situation described by OP, if the parents are in fact sleep training, they ARE leaving their kid to cry for very long periods and that isn't really a good thing in my opinion.

https://www.goldlactation.com/component/k2/item/80-the-neuropsychological-effects-of-sleep-training

 

[dreamylala]

@jannieb I'm sorry, but this article is misleading. Yes studies show that coristol levels are increased during sleep training. The author of this non-scientific article makes a leap from that to evidence of the impacts of chronically increased coristol levels. Critically nowhere in this article OR in peer reviewed literature is there evidence that sleep training leads to chronically inflated coristol levels. The only other supposed harm in this article - that it could interfere with breastfeeding - is hypothetical and has no citation whatsoever.

Frankly, I am quite alarmed that a claim that this perfectly valid decision for parents to make would be allowed to be labeled as "neglect" in a parenting advice forum. It may not fit your parenting values, which is a fine argument for you to make. But to suggest it is neglect - an incredibly powerful term - seems highly judgemental even if you claim you don't judge parents.

To any parents in this forum considering sleep training - do not trust this link. Do not trust me. Consult your pediatrician who will be able to inform you if sleep training is right for your child.

 

[rogerramjet]

@dreamylala Meanwhile there's plenty of studies about the effects of poor sleep on a developing brain. So. I'm gonna vote for a few nights of heightened cortisol over endless nights of crappy sleep.

 

[dreamylala]

@rogerramjet Not to mention the immeasurable harm from lack of sleep to parents!

 

[groypsec]

@rogerramjet Seriously. My daughter was so exhausted when we finally sleep trained, nothing could help her got back to sleep and once we did the Ferber method she was so much happier!

 

[ajfoyt]

@dreamylala Harming breastfeeding? Nobody should be sleep training a newborn. I hope the naysayers get that?

We sleep trained our kid. He's almost 3 and still breastfeeding.

 

[jannieb]

@dreamylala I don't know how to convey the idea that it feels like neglect to ME but may not be for others and I don't have a problem with that. I did say various times that parents may have valid reasons to attempt it. It's just like eating meat can feel like a horrible thing TO ME but that wouldn't mean that everyone should feel the same. I thought was implied with the use of the word "feel" but anyway. Letting a child cry for hours IS considered neglect where I am from so obviously I am biased by own culture too, just like you are.
If we're going this way, personally I am alarmed to see so many parent still practice and recommand the "crying out method" (as I am coming to understand that "sleep training can include a variety of other things) which I believed was a thing from the past. I am no expert, never said I was, I am just giving my 2 cents here just like everyone else (you included) and yes everyone should discuss their options with their caregivers ( BTW my doctor advised against the crying out method) and not make educational decisions based on forums to begin with...
I can see though that it is an emotional subject!

 

[ihavenoname]

@jannieb Yah, mentioning neglect or your feelings of alarm at something doesn’t warrant it is a bit like me yelling FIRE at a concert where I see someone is smoking

Especially for this subreddit where a lot of new parents will be reading and learning. There’s a good chance that the emotional aspects pop out more than the nuance of ‘this is only my opinion’.