Manipulative 12 yo with mental illnesses

[mumofthree]

Sorry for the long post...

My 12 yo daughter has been diagnosed with autism, OCD and anxiety disorder last summer. She has been suffering from sensory issues since she was a child, panic attacks, went through a lot of bullying in elementary school, self-harming herself, attempted suicide three times, etc...

She was hospitalized for 15 weeks last spring-summer, started high school in September, things started to look better for her until she started having seizures (about 20-22 seizures since November). Currently she is under hybrid education, although her seizures seemed to stop for now.

She has a very strong support system, her two sisters, her dad, myself, the school, a therapist, a psychiatrist, GP, etc. We are trying to find answers not only to her seizures (EEG, 24 hr EEG, sleep deprived EEG, brain MRI) but also to her sleeping issues and other mental issues. The list just goes on and on, every day she has something new: hallucinations, depression, migraine, being paranoid, unexplainable stomach ache, you name it.

Me and my oldest daughter are the most "sensitive" ones in the family, we are always there for her, we never brush off her complaints, always listen, always try to be very sensible - and we got the most shit from her to be honest. We realized that she might be manipulating/emotionally blackmailing us with her behavior. Once she gets angry at me (and basically anything can make her get angry, e.g. this morning she did not find a T-shirt and was blaming me for misplacing it), she starts sending messages to my oldest saying "one more thing like this and I swear I will jump off the bridge", "I'm gonna hang myself if I have to live with her any longer", etc. My oldest is getting extremely worried and disturbed by all this, cannot sleep, cries a lot - she is no longer living with us but every morning she sends a message asking if my youngest is doing fine.

I am considering myself a strong person but recently I noticed it is becoming extremely difficult to deal with all this. My 12 yo is telling me things like "you are always blaming other people for everything, you are narcissistic", "even my therapist said you are not normal", other times she is being very sweet, giving me hand written letters, telling me how much she loves and appreciates me and how she does not know what she would do without me.

I noticed a pattern that she is really only playing this game with me and my oldest. My husband (her father) is not so sensitive and he is not so anxious about all this, he is not letting himself get sucked into this who mental illness thing - and my daughter does not even try to manipulate him. All the attempts, almost all the seizures happened when I was there, not her father.

This makes me think that PERHAPS she is not always being honest with her symptoms... Previously I caught her lying about different things, and just after her latest suicide attempt 2 weeks ago she told me she has been faking her seizures (which I know is not true since I saw her during the seizures and he was taken to hospital by ambulance three times already). She seems to come up with new symptoms every week (like the hallucination or the feeling that she is being watched) but she never really behaves like someone who would think that she is being watched...

I do believe she is having mental illnesses, but I also think she is playing along and adds more, imaginary symptoms (that she might or might not pick up from the internet). Her therapist is not really open to talk about my thoughts without her being there which to me sounds completely crazy.

Not sure what to do next, who to talk to. She has a few check ups lined up in the next few weeks and we are looking into another few weeks of hospitalization, but until that starts, I need to survive and I cannot let her play this game with me. My self esteem is lower and lower each day, I start to think how a shitty mother I am and in the meantime scared to death that she might do something to herself.

I do not even know why I am writing all this, but if any of you can relate or have anything to share, pls do... Thanks!

 

[tiger65]

@mumofthree How much TikTok does she watch? It sounds like she is watching some of those mental illness fakers and imitating their behavior, TBH. Not saying she's faking anything/everything, but it does seem like she has some influence in acting this way. Personally I'd ban her from the Internet for a while, and set some hard boundaries and stick to them. If she really does have autism and OCD, she needs straightforward and logical rules and expectations.

 

[mumofthree]

@tiger65 Just like almost all these kids in her age, she watches TikTok a lot. In the past we have tried to restrict her screen time/block certain apps but we always end up giving in because... of her manipulative behavior (i.e. suicide attempt when her phone is being taken away).

I know this sounds very bad. And it is not only TikTok but also google as she is very interested in mental diseases and knows a lot about them. I have a feeling that sometimes she convinces herself that she has this or that mental illness.

This is one of the reasons why I think hospitalization will help her as there is no mobile usage there, except for an hour or two every day.

I might sound weak, and maybe I am but she managed to achieve this with her emotional blackmailing in the past year. I am freaking out just thinking about taking her phone and witnessing another attempt, and she knows this.

Wow, actually writing all this down the whole situation makes so much sense.

 

[pastorpontibus]

@mumofthree So, my daughter suffers from much of the same symptoms as yours. No formal diagnoses other than ADHD, but when we have taken her access to the internet away, she becomes a different and wonderful person after a few days. She socializes, she’s pleasant and funny. When she gets too deep into internet addiction, she is withdrawn, antisocial, angry, and has made references to wanting to kill herself.

She has a therapist, and that’s great, but I’ll be honest, I think the therapist is just affirming all of your daughter’s feelings and not actually helping her see reality. The go to thing these days feels like affirming, coddling, doing anything they can to reduce the chance of a suicide attempt. I don’t want to seem harsh. I often am scared I’m doing the wrong thing myself. I will hate myself forever if my daughter winds up messed up from this. But my gut tells me that I’m doing the right thing and calling her bluff and holding firm to my boundaries. I wish you so much luck, and I’m sorry if anything I said is off base.

 

[tiger65]

@mumofthree Yeah, as tough as it is to entertain the thought of a suicide attempt, I think you need to take her phone and call her bluff on this one. She's not going to kill herself.

Or you need to use her urges to learn about disorders against her and manipulate her back by teaching her and having her read about Internet addiction.

 

[delm]

@tiger65 Never assume the suicide threats won't lead to attempts or worse death. Feeling so hopeless that you don't want to exist is a bad place where people make bad decisions.

 

[iamsteve]

@delm I second this. There are children this age that have followed through and died.

 

[mumofthree]

@delm Yes. This is why I am not taking her phone away. One bad move, something goes wrong and it is too late. Not gonna risk it.

 

[allie1313]

@mumofthree You are doing a lot for your daughter. What are you doing for you? Do you have a therapist, support system outside of your family, or a place to vent out and get impartial feedback?

 

[mumofthree]

@allie1313 I am lucky to have a support system (friends mostly and my daughters). My husband is also supportive but he says I am overthinking things - but I am the one who takes our daughter to therapy and to all the medical check ups, I am the one talking to the school about her education, etc, so of course I am "overthinking" when all my life is about her now.

I also have a life coach (before her I had a therapist who did not help much other than telling me to have some me-time every day).

 

[allie1313]

@mumofthree Are you doing any family therapy with your husband and oldest?

 

[mumofthree]

@allie1313 Not really, no... When my 12 yo was in hospital, we did have a few sessions and I think it will be the same when she goes to hospital again. But it is a good idea.

 

[allie1313]

@mumofthree It’s so easy to slip into making the sick child the nucleus of the family dynamic but it is so important to strengthen those external ties because they still benefit the sick child even when not centers on them exclusively.

Good luck to your whole family!

 

[michaelo]

@mumofthree I am really sorry you are going through this, it sounds exhausting & so stressful.

Full disclosure, I have never had a child try to commit suicide, NOR have I dealt with this in a tween. So my comments may not be helpful

But I did struggle with a child when he was young, who would say, he wished he was dead or I would die, and I actually found individual therapy as well as reading numerous parenting books helpful, to help me stop feeding into his cycle of behavior. It was hard on my marriage and in the thick of it, I thought my husband was being an AH to my son. But in hindsight, I think he actually helped teach some stoicism, which sort of contradicts the current theory of “address every emotion”, which I think is sort of not working for so many youth in this day and age. I think between the two of use there was a good balance of empathy and boundaries.

 

[mumofthree]

@michaelo This is what our daughter's therapist told me as well. That there is a good balance between my husband's and my approach. However, it is only me who gets the heat so I think I need to take a step back and "outsmart" our daughter. And this is not to say that I will do what my husband does. I do think our girl needs my attention/my care but she also needs to learn that she cannot manipulate me.

 

[amoretpax199]

@mumofthree I'm so sorry. Your family sounds traumatized from this.

I have adult onset epilepsy, and had seizures until medication brought them under control. So I hope that they find what works for her longterm. Interestingly, some medication works for both epilepsy and bipolar disorder, the latter can have certain symptoms such as hallucinations and paranoia. I would keep an eye on how her symptoms might change with seizure medication.

It wouldn't sit right with me tbh that the therapist is unwilling to meet with you alone. Is your family pleased with his treatment otherwise?

I read "When your daughter has BPD" by Daniel S. Lobel due to the challenges with my daughter. There are overlapping symptoms with a lot of mental illnesses, and even in the absence of such a diagnosis (rarely made in childhood), I found it helpful to have some real life situation help for her. Our children are victims of their illness, but our interactions with them matter, and we can set boundaries. They can be helpful if done right. I think you might find that book helpful. Responses to suicide threats are covered as well. The fact that your daughter is behaving differently with your husband might indicate that he is responding in a way that she realizes lashing out wouldn't work so well with him.

 

[mumofthree]

@amoretpax199 Thanks so much, I will look into that book.

It seems that her seizures are non-epileptic but more psychogenic. They are still trying to catch a seizure when she has an EEG, this is why she had a sleep deprived EEG scheduled for next week.

I have been wondering about she having BPD but I know it does not get diagnosed at this age.

As for her therapist, she seemed to be one she trusts (she did not open up to her previous one) but I will push for a discussion withour her being there.

 

[amoretpax199]

@mumofthree I've never had a seizure with a sleep deprived EEG. I had 3 such EEGs. But before I was medicated, I had seizures the moment I fell asleep, so I understand why they want to create that scenario. Some seizures can't easily be identified. Based on symptoms, they can often say which area of the brain is affected though.

My neurologist focuses now on keeping me seizure free, instead of searching for detectable defects.

All the best to you all.

 

[crystalcoffee]

@mumofthree Self care mama. Self care. As for her, love with extreme boundaries. My child recently came out of residential treatment, I’m speaking from experience when I say that if you’re no longer able to do that, you need to step up care. The end goal is stabilization and sometimes you being there or anyone being there really, to manipulate and focus on instead of themselves becomes a codependent issue on top of everything else. You have to find the point at which you’re giving everything she NEEDS and cut it off from there when manipulating behaviors are present. A loving relationship with your parent is absolutely a child’s right, but being overly dependent on their parents reactions to avoid accountability or progress is absolutely not. Best wishes, I know this is such a difficult journey. Do all you can and give yourself a ton of grace. You love her, you’re trying, that’s enough.

 

[mumofthree]

@crystalcoffee I needed to hear this, thank you so much!