I need a little guidance as my heart is conflicted about sleep training.(sorry, it's a long one)

[mrmovie1983]

So here's my situation: FTM to an amazing little boy who will be 9 months on the 11th. Since his 4/5 month sleep regression where he went 7-9 hours sleeping straight without waking, he has been refusing to sleep in his crib (playpen with mattress) and waking up every 1-3 hours in the night. We have been cosleeping since December. Which is great except that after putting him to sleep at 7, he wakes up every 5-45 minutes until I go to bed (preferably at 10, but if he wakes up at 9:30 or later I just go to bed then). All naps are contact naps-he's down to two naps most days that are between 45 minutes to 2+ hours.

Otherwise you know, things are going pretty well. He was having, I'm assuming the 8 month sleep regression, and he was up every hour for almost a week. And this waking up multiple times before I come to bed has only started the past month or so. I was telling my cousin about this and she recommended me to her friend who is a nurse who took a sleep consultant course. It's through WeeSleep. I hadn't considered sleep training before now because I really don't want any kind of cry it out. Whether it's one minute, 10 minutes or an hour. I asked her if her method included letting him cry and she has several answers: "no", "there are no sleep training methods that have zero crying", and "there will be times of 'protest'." To me "protest" is sales person speak for crying but not calling it crying...?

Anyway, she is guaranteeing that my little guy will be sleeping 10-12 hours at night without waking up. BUT, I have to follow her directions exactly, which include moving him to his crib in his own room.

Please let me know what you think of my concerns:

-I was planning to have him in my room until at least a year old, which I read was recommended for SIDS prevention, and it makes me sad to have him so far away

-He is exclusively breastfed (+BLW solids), but has always only nursed when going to sleep for the night or naps and throughout the night. With only having two naps in the day now, I am concerned about how much milk will be cut from his intake (he also has always refused a bottle).

-Selfishly, I will miss him and the nighttime cuddles. But I also worry that I am doing him a disservice on not helping him to sleep better at night.

-A part of me feels like I'm not being the mother I want to be if I'm not "right there" when he wakes up during the night or naps.

On the other hand, I feel like it will improve my relationship with my husband if we could all sleep better and have some alone time or relaxing time in the evening.

What do you think? Have you used WeeSleep or another sleep training method that you recommend? Am I crazy to think there might be a sleep training method without crying?

Thank you all so much!!

 

[sferber]

@mrmovie1983 I would be skeptical of (1) any paid program and (2) any program that starts with being told you must follow all instructions. It doesn’t sound like she will support modifications to make the program work for your specific family situation, and then will probably use that as the reason when it doesn’t work for you. (But I’m a pessimist about all gurus and find them very predatory on desperate parents.)

Could his afternoon nap be too long or too late in the day? Worth googling possum sleep too, lots of free info online and it’s very supportive of AP/not at all CIO. I wish I could be of more help.

 

[mrmovie1983]

@sferber Thank you. You're right, it doesn't seem as supportive as they claim, when you can't modify anything about it. I'll check out possum sleep. You're right, it does seem predatory.

I try to have him up for at least 3 hours before bedtime. But yes, maybe limiting his second nap length would be good too.

 

[wildernesswanderer]

@mrmovie1983 Possums is really interesting and helpful, seconding this

 

[parnellj83]

@mrmovie1983 I would not work with this person. I would look for a program that adapts to your needs and wants. Not all sleep training is created equal, we had great success with just scheduling and decreasing intervention gradually and never had to let him cry, but we would have let him cry for a very short period of time if needed

 

[fruitb]

@mrmovie1983 3hrs. Fore bed at 9m doesn’t sound long enough. We do 3hrs before bed for our 7mo, and he’s a sleepy dude who usually has ww on the short side.

 

[jameslaurich]

@mrmovie1983 Trust your gut! You are the expert on you and your baby. Everything you outlined is valid and rational. Heysleepybaby on Instagram was really helpful for me.

ETA: you answered your own question in your second paragraph! That’s your gut, listen to it.

 

[mrmovie1983]

@jameslaurich Thank you so much!

 

[vtac180]

@mrmovie1983 What helped for me was when someone told me that when (older) babies wake during the night it's usually just part of their natural circadian rhythm rather than any distress. When my baby woke, I'd sit and listen for a bit without rushing to him. If his cries sounded distressed I'd comfort him immediately, but if they were just waking cries then I'd wait to see if they stopped, and they usually do.

Apparently sleeping in the same room also results in the parents being far more alert to the little cries that aren't distress signals and that when babies begin sleeping in their own rooms, the parents will sleep through the baby's small awake periods.

When they need comfort, soothe their cries with a cuddle, then when they're soothed, put them back in the cot still awake. It's part of teaching them that it's safe and comfortable to sleep in their own little space, and that you'll always be there if they need you.

 

[mrmovie1983]

@vtac180 Thank you for your insight, this is really helpful to me. I guess I just need to figure out how to get him back into his own bed then into his own room.

 

[agbon]

@mrmovie1983 Also I know it’s commonly recommended but with my second baby I read Precious Little Sleep (so the investment is the cost of the book, minimal!) and it talks you through baby sleep at different ages and approaches. What I like is that it doesn’t push any one approach or method, just explains how babies sleep and you can make your own decisions!

 

[mrmovie1983]

@agbon That's a great idea, thank you! I'll check out the book!

 

[starinamos]

@mrmovie1983 I got the kindle version on sale for 99 pence (in the UK) so keep an eye out for sales too! A lot of people on this sub and the New Parents sub swear by it.

 

[interest7]

@mrmovie1983 Responding to your concerns:

- The AAP's recommendation for roomsharing up to a year is conservative, as most of the evidence behind roomsharing as SIDS prevention falls off after 6 months. In fact, the benefits might be negated or outweighed as they've found that those roomsharing after six months are more likely to engage in statistically riskier sleep practices like the co-sleeping you're describing. (NPR)

- My baby also ate only at certain times (upon wake up) but I added an extra nursing session in the middle of the wake window and increased solids when he dropped a nap, out of the same concern.

- Totally normal to miss those cuddles. Every day I find something new to miss - today I miss when my baby lay quietly during diaper changes.

- The way you put "being the mother I want to be" sounds like you recognize that this need speaks more to how you see yourself than what your baby might express as his needs.

- I loved roomsharing with my kid, but moved him because we kept accidentally waking him up. I was sad about it until we put him to bed that first night and then I remembered what it was like to have just a room with my partner that I could keep the lights on and talk in if I wanted to. It's magical.

I think your questions are very valid so I tried my best to respond honestly. I will also say that I think there is no harm on slowwwly starting to introduce some independent sleep habits, especially if you're fine with what you're doing in the meantime. It's contrary to what I often hear, but we started introducing independent sleep habits at naptime before bedtime. If you're interested in that, maybe introduce more and more time between nursing and sleeping, crib naps at least once a day, etc, would be a good place to start. Again, I'm not going to push anything because we focused on these things from the beginning, and I think it's a different beast when you're transitioning at a slightly older age, but I will say, I get 2 independent naps and.12 straight hours of sleep from my baby every night, and I think it's key to allowing me to be the best parent I can be, which is what my baby deserves. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

 

[brh1989]

@interest7 Cosleeping plus breastfeeding doesn't increase SIDS risk after 4 months tho.

 

[prophetelijah]

@mrmovie1983 I recommend the book Precious Little Sleep and the Facebook group for it. The group was essential as you can post your questions and get specific feedback.

 

[midas]

@mrmovie1983 I recommend @heysleepybaby for sleeping tips without leaving baby to cry. I would also be very suspicious of anyone who guarantees sleeping 10-12hrs at night. From my experience with my toddler and friends’ toddlers, that’s actually not very common until close to 2years, or longer. My girl was a wakeful sleeper until we night weaned her, and now she sleeps 8pm-5am, nurses, and then sleeps until 7:30ish. So she’s not even sleeping 10hrs straight, but it’s a great routine that works for us.

I also recommend Possums for sleep help! Loved their philosophy, even if I don’t use all of it. Don’t do anything you’re not comfortable with, your baby will sleep eventually even if you don’t do anything at all But there are easier methods that won’t be as extreme to help in the meantime!

 

[mrmovie1983]

@midas Right. I feel like that's too long to be asleep and alone for a tiny baby . Maybe I'm listening to my mother and MIL too much. They think what's happening is crazy and their kids were all unicorn sleepers apparently. I will checkout your recommendations. Thank you so much!

 

[midas]

@mrmovie1983 Yeah I think older generations forget a lot! My MIL had 7 boys and said they were all sleeping through the night by 3 months… Like there’s no way! I like that instagram account because she normalizes biological baby sleep, so your expectations are more realistic. It was helpful for me when I was spiraling wondering if my baby’s sleep was broken or something! She also has practical tips for improving things while still encouraging being responsive to your baby, it’s great!

 

[mrmovie1983]

@midas Thank you. It's so true, I think they forget a lot. Plus I think our generation does things differently than they did and I think they either get offended or don't understand. And yes I feel like knowing our situation is normal helps a lot with coping.