Husband has concerns over Covid vaccine

[serenity777]

@peccavi44 Thank you - this does! I especially think point # 3 will be reassuring for him.

 

[weepingsinner7]

@serenity777 A lot of people have mentioned “my kid had barely any reaction”

But a lot of studies have proven even those with little to no symptoms still had significant organ damage. (Studies on adults not children though** edit)

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...-may-be-free-of-symptoms-but-not-free-of-harm

https://www.henryford.com/blog/2021/05/asymptomatic-long-haulers

That’s why I’m taking my 9 month old to get vaccinated tomorrow.

 

[serenity777]

@weepingsinner7 Thank you! This has been one of my main concerns- I don't want her to suffer long term damage while her body is trying to figure out how to fight the virus.

 

[anne77]

@weepingsinner7 Ok, but does the vaccine protect against long Covid? I am not against the vax, to clarify.

 

[weepingsinner7]

@anne77 Great question! Yes!

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/964014

Some studies have shown a 50-80% reduction in the top ten typical long COVID symptoms in individuals who were fully vaccinated (2 vaccines)

This study was released in Sept 2022

Edit to add: another study mentions a 19% lowered risk of long covid and less likely to have organ damage for fully vaccinated.

https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/19/19/12422

 

[tezboski99]

@weepingsinner7 This is the kind of info I love to see. Thank you!

 

[charist]

@serenity777 This is anecdotal, but: my son (10 months old) has a critical congenital heart defect and has had two heart surgeries. His cardiologist has recommended we get him the COVID vaccine. She was not worried about the possibility of myocarditis. (Of course, we live in the south and it seems impossible to find anywhere to actually get the infant COVID vaccine, but...)

 

[serenity777]

@charist He's one tough cookie and I hope he's done with surgeries! Yes, that's helpful to know a pediatric cardiologist is not concerned and recommended the vaccine. We live in the Midwest and our pediatric clinic doesn't give the vaccine anymore because they have such a low demand that they were having to throw away a bunch of opened vials of it. So, I had to make an appointment with our county health department which only offers infant vaccines 2 days a week :/. I suspect this lack of access is part of the reason why I think (if I remember correctly) only ~30% of infants have been vaccinated.

Best of luck to you and your son!!

 

[rocketvgc]

@serenity777 An anti vax friend was citing “all the young athletes dropping dead” from heart issues. After ten minutes I found a precovid study which concluded a very small percentage of athletes die of cardiac arrest every year. So these anecdotes might be surprising to those unaware but they are consistent with life before COVID.

 

[serenity777]

@kelseyylee701 Oh wow, thank you for these resources!!

 

[kelseyylee701]

@serenity777 No problem! My toddler got Moderna when it was first available. Because we were so eager we did the 4 week interval but honestly I would’ve done longer if we weren’t in a surge at the time. Moderna is nice because it’s 2 doses then the bivalent booster. For Pfizer it’s 3 doses then follow up with the bivalent dose so 4 total. It takes 3 doses of Pfizer to get the same level as 2 doses of Moderna so I’m personally glad we went with Moderna.

 

[asianfemale]

@kelseyylee701 The Pfizer series for under 5s is a bit confusing. They are still studying a bivalent booster for kids under 5 who already completed the 3 dose monovalent series. What’s currently authorized is 3 doses of Pfizer. You would now get 2 of the monovalent (original) kind and they replaced the 3rd dose with the bivalent.

 

[kelseyylee701]

@asianfemale Ahh thank you for the clarification! That’s much better news!

 

[serenity777]

@kelseyylee701 Good to know! I don't think he's aware of the dosing schedule between the two, so he might be more inclined to go the Moderna route.

 

[bdiddy]

@serenity777 Policy on this varies from country to country. Here in the Netherlands, children younger than 5 years are not vaccinated against Covid. It is also not possible to arrange this yourself because the vaccination is not approved for children under 5.

The advice of the Health Council of the Netherlands is that it is not necessary to make the covid vaccination available to all children from 5 to 11 years of age. Healthy children hardly get sick from the Omikron variant. Only if children have a serious condition are they recommended to get a shot.

The covid vaccination was primarily intended to prevent the rare inflammatory disease Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome Children (MIS-C). MIS-C occurs almost exclusively when a child receives Covid for the first time. Because most children have already had Covid once, the risk of getting MIS-C is very low. It is also known that the omikron variant is less likely to cause MIS-C than previous variants of the virus.

The Health Council does still recommend a covid vaccination for children at increased risk of becoming seriously ill from the coronavirus. A covid vaccination reduces the likelihood that they will have to be hospitalized.

 

[kelseyylee701]

@bdiddy That’s because your government motioned to not inform their citizens of the significant increase of health risks associated with COVID infection.

Meanwhile a study in the Netherlands01214-4/fulltext) concludes 1 in 8 of the general population suffers or is at risk of suffering from post-COVID 19 condition.

This study shows post-COVID-19 condition might occur in about one out of eight people with COVID-19 in the general population. Core symptoms of post-COVID-19 condition include chest pain, difficulties with breathing, lump in throat, pain when breathing, painful muscles, heavy arms or legs, ageusia or anosmia, feeling hot and cold alternately, tingling extremities, and general tiredness. To our knowledge, this is the first study to provide a reliable assessment of the prevalence of post-COVID-19 condition

Your government is also showing disinterest in funding the research of post COVID 19 condition.

Children are at risk of long COVID just like adults.
Also each reinfection to COVID increases your risk of developing the post-COVID 19 condition along with higher risk of other organ failures.

Studies coming out that COVID is effecting the immune system of children to have more severe cases of other viruses such as RSV & Strep along withliver damage. More studies are being done on how COVID attacks the liver. along with how it attacks the brain & with children their brains are developing so we may not know the effects of COVID on their brains for several years but in Japan they’re seeing some symptoms soon after the acute infection.

 

[luanne]

@bdiddy

Because most children have already had Covid
once, the risk of getting MIS-C is very low.

I follow the logic in your comment, but what population are you referring to concerning most children having already had Covid once? The Netherlands? Worldwide? Something else? And how much above 50%?

I ask because it appears to be far below 50% in the US, which is what I'm most familiar with. As of February 16th the American Academy of Pediatrics stated "over 15.4 million children are reported to have tested positive for COVID-19 since the onset of the pandemic according to available state reports" and "children, under age 18, make up 22.2% of the US population". The US population is an estimated 336 million, so that's 74.6 million children. 15.4 / 74.6 => 20.6%. With unreported cases it's certainly higher, but without some other figures I'm uncertain how much higher.

 

[bdiddy]

@luanne There is not nearly as much official testing here anymore. Home testing is the norm and, as of last week, an advice from the Outbreak Management Team (OMT) has come out stating that testing and isolation is no longer necessary at all. The OMT's latest advice to the cabinet states that as far as the omikron variant (and subvariants) of the coronavirus are concerned, the Netherlands is in the so-called endemic phase. This means that the virus is dormant in society. So it is treated like a normal flu/cold.

Research here in the Netherlands shows that by spring 2022, about 95% of the population had antibodies against Covid in their blood (this can also be due to vaccination). This autumn, more than three-quarters of people who donate blood in the Netherlands had now experienced a covid infection. For children, it is more difficult to measure because they are usually not tested in the official test lines because they often have little or no symptoms. Also, covid infection in children often goes undetected due to the lack of symptoms. Looking at the infection rate of teaching and day-care staff, they assume that almost all children have already had covid.

My children have already had it too (proven through self-testing). They barely had any symptoms, actually just a snotty nose but they have that chronically thanks to day care.

I can imagine that here in the Netherlands, the figures are possibly higher because we live closer together here and home education is unusual/often prohibited here. Schools here have also only been closed for short periods because of the disruptive impact it has on child development. The same applies to day care. Young children here in the Netherlands also did not have to keep a distance or wear a mask relatively quickly because children almost always had only mild symptoms of covid infection.

 

[luanne]

@bdiddy Thank you for your explanation. Since 3/4 of adults who donated blood last fall had been infected in the past, even with lower infection rates for children then what you said in your previous comment seems plausible. The other factors help explain it as well.

Between asymptomatic children, poorly administered self testing kits, and false negatives for such kits it's possible official US figures are way lower than actual infection percentages. Anything more than mild symptoms in young children seems to be exceedingly rare (and that's also been my personal anecdotal observation).

 

[imgatlin]

@luanne When does a case become recorded?
And if the same child comes back multiple times is it a “plus one” for each positive visit or plus one per child?

I’d imagine anything outside of a medical office would not get reported. So the number of positive cases is then very likely much higher rather than lower. Especially given the time horizon, school being back in person for a semester plus, all the family holidays interactions, etc. — just way more chances and likelihood at exposure.

Unless the medical offices are multi-counting. — which even then is more likely than not to be undercounting.