aegisheart
New member
@atodestroxia I am completely overwhelmed by the response i got here and can't properly answer you but I wanted to thank you for your comment and providing links to reasources. We will look into them tonight.
How to support a gifted child?
- Thread starter aegisheart
- Start date
@aegisheart Are you able to work with a psychologist (not a psychiatrist)? A good psychologist will work with parents to help answer all those questions based on experience and evidence-based, developmentally-appropriate recommendations (as opposed to a psychiatrist, who deal moreso with medications, and your ped, who will have less experience in this area). The psychologist should also be able to advise you around assessment and may also have the names of some qualified assessors jn your community
@aegisheart You may find this adversarial collaboration on gifted education insightful. There's a short "Practical Advice" section at the end if you aren't into reading 8,000 words right now.
The only thing I have to add is that I've also had a good experience with Art of Problem Solving.
The only thing I have to add is that I've also had a good experience with Art of Problem Solving.
@aegisheart Your son sounds like he would be a great candidate for occupational therapy to address both his sensory sensitivities, emotional regulation, energy modulation, and frustration tolerance. I wonder if your PCP would write you a referral ?
@aegisheart Also I’d recommend that you always listen to him (active listening) and dive into his interests with him and ask questions with him. This will make him feel connected to someone in a world that isn’t going to understand his deep, unique, usually complex point of view. Try not to dismiss what he’s saying… it’s probably almost always only the tip of the iceberg. Growing up gifted, I wished more people could understand and accept me, but especially my family. I was usually alone.
We put a lot of emphasis on helping gifted kids achieve their academic and intellectual potential so they can be conventionally successful adults. But we often neglect to focus on their emotional needs — a need to connect and belong like anyone else, without being “wow! that smart kid!”
We put a lot of emphasis on helping gifted kids achieve their academic and intellectual potential so they can be conventionally successful adults. But we often neglect to focus on their emotional needs — a need to connect and belong like anyone else, without being “wow! that smart kid!”
blessedbgod
New member
@aegisheart I'll try to answer the way I'd give myself advice. Any correction is appreciated, my kid (hypothetical or otherwise) would appreciate it.
Long term success can grow from smarts. Wisdom is another pillar. That's won with time or by inheritance. Conscientiousness can boost both.
https://angeladuckworth.com/grit-book/
Long term success can grow from smarts. Wisdom is another pillar. That's won with time or by inheritance. Conscientiousness can boost both.
- Follow his lead with subject matter, but do the organization, the executive control. Introduce new things. Watch for openness to experience. Do things that are important to you around him.
- It's a balance, depends on the context. It's "You're so talented" vs. "You worked hard". See 1.
- Regular schedule. Resist moving ahead a year or two. School is by majority social. Extravesion muscle. Emphasize that. Knowing all the things is easy, being empathetic, patient, and wise is hard.
- Sounds like keep doing that. Sounds like my impatience. Even if she doesn't get it until 10 you were better off for the exercize of it.
- Part of support is patience.
- Music class sounds great. Is is the noises or the lack of control over the noise? What kind of sounds does he like to make? Consider moving to the country?
- Correct.
- Not a clue. That sounds existentially frustrating.
https://angeladuckworth.com/grit-book/
aegisheart
New member
@blessedbgod I am completely tapped out and can't properly answer you but I wanted to let you know I appreciate your comment and will look into the articles you linked.
@aegisheart You might find this book helpful
https://www.redleafpress.org/Challe...ldren-in-Early-Childhood-Classrooms-P778.aspx
You’ve posed a lot of really good questions, and you are taking a wonderful holistic approach. So many times I have seen parents hyper-focus on academics with bright children and ignore the rest.
So far as having him assessed, look to see what is available through your local children’s hospital. Ours work with the San Diego Regional Center and First Five and provide extensive screenings.
I understand parent’s concerns about labels, but it’s really important to understand your child’s needs as early as possible and especially before the age of 5, when they would be entering school.
There is always a backlog of support services in those first years, and it can be very frustrating.
You may find that he only needs assistance with sensory issues, and that would not result in him being labeled, but would qualify him for OT support
You may end up with some “parenting” classes to show you how to manage his high intensity.
Just don’t be afraid of finding out everything you can now, it will just give you more tools for the future.
Whatever decisions you make, I’m sure they will be best for your son. You are taking a very thoughtful approach and I am quite sure he will be very successful with all your support
(35 years in early childhood)
Best to you and your family
https://www.redleafpress.org/Challe...ldren-in-Early-Childhood-Classrooms-P778.aspx
You’ve posed a lot of really good questions, and you are taking a wonderful holistic approach. So many times I have seen parents hyper-focus on academics with bright children and ignore the rest.
So far as having him assessed, look to see what is available through your local children’s hospital. Ours work with the San Diego Regional Center and First Five and provide extensive screenings.
I understand parent’s concerns about labels, but it’s really important to understand your child’s needs as early as possible and especially before the age of 5, when they would be entering school.
There is always a backlog of support services in those first years, and it can be very frustrating.
You may find that he only needs assistance with sensory issues, and that would not result in him being labeled, but would qualify him for OT support
You may end up with some “parenting” classes to show you how to manage his high intensity.
Just don’t be afraid of finding out everything you can now, it will just give you more tools for the future.
Whatever decisions you make, I’m sure they will be best for your son. You are taking a very thoughtful approach and I am quite sure he will be very successful with all your support
(35 years in early childhood)
Best to you and your family
marshallbryant
New member
@aegisheart Gifted education varies enormously depending on where you live. I would ask the school he'll be attending what their gifted program looks like. If you're in the US, not all schools here are even required to have a gifted program (just a heads up). In the US he will have to be identified as gifted (tested) before getting any services. My 4 is old is also probably gifted and I will send him to Kindergarten at 5 (that's not really "early" here, it's when most kids go) even though I did consider keeping him home until 6 because I would call his social emotional skills "low average". If you are in the US I can direct you to some resources.
@aegisheart I'm from Germany and was considered gifted when I was small and skipped a grade. I had no problem socially in the higher grade, but it wasn't really a "fix" because I tended to often still be bored (once I had caught up) and additionally had the feeling that I had missed out on something and not learned everything "from the beginning". At least that's how I remember; my mom remembers me being sad and introverted in grade 1 and much happier the years after - don't know whose memory is better to trust
. I think there's no way of knowing whether skipping a grade is the right thing but if anything, I would have preferred to go early to first grade rather than skipping a grade once I was in school (or starting at a higher level).
The main thing that I think was damaging for me was setting high expectations. When I was small and said I wanted to be a daycare teacher, I was told I was "too smart" for that. So from a very young age I had this burden of not "wasting" my "gift" and I think that pressure made many things harder for me. Sounds like you are not doing that at all which is great. Also a vote against 1). I don't think specially challenging him will be that helpful - let him pick his challenges. In my opinion, he has a lot of time left to learn to fail with all kinds of things. Another commenter also said to follow your son's lead - I think that would have been great for me. I got lots of offers of special activities, but I think it would have been better to just let me ask for things if I needed/wanted them. (And I did; I was very curious and i.e. found some scrap paper with math problems and asked how to solve them - I definitely looked for the things that interested me). And live like everyone else in the mean time. By the way, treating him as if he is older I think is not a problem at all - if it's at the level he's actually at! And from your post it sounds like you would probably notice if you are overwhelming him with anything.
So this is just a very personal anecdote but might still be helpful, I thought. Though I didn't have any of the hypersensitivity issues etc. It definitely sounds like you're asking the right questions and seeing your son for who he is, which I think are wonderful and probably the best basis for seeing him thrive later.
. I think there's no way of knowing whether skipping a grade is the right thing but if anything, I would have preferred to go early to first grade rather than skipping a grade once I was in school (or starting at a higher level).The main thing that I think was damaging for me was setting high expectations. When I was small and said I wanted to be a daycare teacher, I was told I was "too smart" for that. So from a very young age I had this burden of not "wasting" my "gift" and I think that pressure made many things harder for me. Sounds like you are not doing that at all which is great. Also a vote against 1). I don't think specially challenging him will be that helpful - let him pick his challenges. In my opinion, he has a lot of time left to learn to fail with all kinds of things. Another commenter also said to follow your son's lead - I think that would have been great for me. I got lots of offers of special activities, but I think it would have been better to just let me ask for things if I needed/wanted them. (And I did; I was very curious and i.e. found some scrap paper with math problems and asked how to solve them - I definitely looked for the things that interested me). And live like everyone else in the mean time. By the way, treating him as if he is older I think is not a problem at all - if it's at the level he's actually at! And from your post it sounds like you would probably notice if you are overwhelming him with anything.
So this is just a very personal anecdote but might still be helpful, I thought. Though I didn't have any of the hypersensitivity issues etc. It definitely sounds like you're asking the right questions and seeing your son for who he is, which I think are wonderful and probably the best basis for seeing him thrive later.
bibllethumper
New member
@aegisheart There are levels to giftedness. What makes sense for a level 1-3 gifted kid wouldn’t for a child at level 5. You do need to have an idea where he is at, what the needs are at that level, and then you will have to advocate.
We have a extremely gifted kid and it’s hard.
You’ll hear a lot of antidotal advice about never skipping grades or socially they need to be around kids their age, but depending on where they are on the curve, it may not apply or be healthy either. People fail to recognize some advanced gifted kids, from an IQ standpoint, are as far away from average (the other way) as a child with Down syndrome is on the IQ curve. This is not a judgement; it’s a fact. We wouldn’t expect a child with Down’s syndrome to keep up with normal kids socially or in school because their needs are unique. They are often in specialized educational programming.
But we act like it’s unreasonable for advanced kids to want to be with older or other gifted kids who can play and think like them and that’s not fair. Socially, for some gifted kids, being around their aged peers is quite isolating, although they do have to learn how to be good citizens and deal with all that too.
Buy the book “5 Levels of Gifted” by Deborah Ruf. It will help you assess the needs for your child better, and how to better deal with the imbalance (asynchronous development) gifted kids have in different areas.
There is a indeed a known link between hyperlexia and autism and there are many gifted kids who are twice exceptional (gifted with autism).
But if your child can comprehend and discuss what he reads and has no clear signs of autism on the assessment, autism may not be involved in his case. I had a son who spontaneously started reading by 3 and by 3.5 could read anything as fast as you or I - Harry Potter to the NYT, and he could comprehend and talk about what he read at a level that would surprise most adults. He’s extremely gifted, and also extremely social and happy. He has never had any signs of autism. You’ll hear a lot of stories that reading early or having an interest in letters means autism and while it may (there is a link), it also may not.
He’s in kindergarten at a private hybrid school. The hope next year is to be able to float him to upper grades for math and reading, so he is finally challenged and can also have some relationships with kids at his brain level. It doesn’t quite work with the kinder class to do that yet, so we supplement a lot at home to keep learning fun. And he needs the fine motor skill development because there he is at grade level.
He’s friendly and has a few friends in his class, but he’s lonely because the kids are so different. The most fun he ever has is when he can be around a smart 3-4th grader who plays at his advanced level.
It’s not easy but the book was by far the most helpful resource for us. Good luck.
We have a extremely gifted kid and it’s hard.
You’ll hear a lot of antidotal advice about never skipping grades or socially they need to be around kids their age, but depending on where they are on the curve, it may not apply or be healthy either. People fail to recognize some advanced gifted kids, from an IQ standpoint, are as far away from average (the other way) as a child with Down syndrome is on the IQ curve. This is not a judgement; it’s a fact. We wouldn’t expect a child with Down’s syndrome to keep up with normal kids socially or in school because their needs are unique. They are often in specialized educational programming.
But we act like it’s unreasonable for advanced kids to want to be with older or other gifted kids who can play and think like them and that’s not fair. Socially, for some gifted kids, being around their aged peers is quite isolating, although they do have to learn how to be good citizens and deal with all that too.
Buy the book “5 Levels of Gifted” by Deborah Ruf. It will help you assess the needs for your child better, and how to better deal with the imbalance (asynchronous development) gifted kids have in different areas.
There is a indeed a known link between hyperlexia and autism and there are many gifted kids who are twice exceptional (gifted with autism).
But if your child can comprehend and discuss what he reads and has no clear signs of autism on the assessment, autism may not be involved in his case. I had a son who spontaneously started reading by 3 and by 3.5 could read anything as fast as you or I - Harry Potter to the NYT, and he could comprehend and talk about what he read at a level that would surprise most adults. He’s extremely gifted, and also extremely social and happy. He has never had any signs of autism. You’ll hear a lot of stories that reading early or having an interest in letters means autism and while it may (there is a link), it also may not.
He’s in kindergarten at a private hybrid school. The hope next year is to be able to float him to upper grades for math and reading, so he is finally challenged and can also have some relationships with kids at his brain level. It doesn’t quite work with the kinder class to do that yet, so we supplement a lot at home to keep learning fun. And he needs the fine motor skill development because there he is at grade level.
He’s friendly and has a few friends in his class, but he’s lonely because the kids are so different. The most fun he ever has is when he can be around a smart 3-4th grader who plays at his advanced level.
It’s not easy but the book was by far the most helpful resource for us. Good luck.
aegisheart
New member
@bibllethumper Thank you for your perspective, I never thought of it this way. I'm adding that book to my reading list. We know one gifted child who benefited from skipping two grades, something most people here are adamantly against. I'm guessing this isn't a well-researched area so you have to go on a case-by-case basis.
bibllethumper
New member
@aegisheart There’s more research than you’d think, but the public has a certain bias on this topic. Find the psychiatrists who work exclusively in this domain and bring in others who for guidance and perspective, understand where on the curve your child is, and go from there. Skipping grades is indeed unnecessary for most gifted kids - but not all. For the outlier “level 5” gifted kids, not challenging them intellectually is worse and causes other behavioral issues, esp early on. Indeed we want to balance social and intellectual as best we can, but if a 5 yr old kid is functioning intellectually at the level of a 15+ year old (and they exist) do we really think they’re going to connect with the average 5 yo in a truly fulfilling way? It’d be like telling you to make BFFs with toddlers and never be around adults. Those kids should be around kids their own age, and they need to work on those skills where they are asynchronous and age-level, but they are also going to need “adult” companionship to feel understood and accepted.
disciplerami
New member
@aegisheart Per getting a good evaluation: Look for a PhD-level neuropsychologist (specifically one who does children). They do high quality ADHD, ASD, and learning evaluations. It is pricey. If you’re in the US or Canada (maybe other countries too but idk) then your best bet is to search for a university nearby that has a PhD program in clinical psychology and their testing clinic likely does evaluations on a sliding scale. You’re getting a PhD student doing it, but they are supervised by a licensed neuropsychologist and are usually very thorough because it benefits their training to do so. A lot of people think psychiatrists do these diagnoses but tbh their training is hugely variable and they don’t always learn the ADOS, so neuropsychologist would be better.
@aegisheart Former prodigy.
I’d start by watching some Linda Silverman on YouTube she’s a leading expert on the emotional lives of gifted people/asynchroncry.
I’d also read gifted children by Ellen Winner, children above 180 iq by Miraca Gross and Genius in Residence by Audrey Grost and 5 levels of giftedness by Deborah Ruf.
I’d start by watching some Linda Silverman on YouTube she’s a leading expert on the emotional lives of gifted people/asynchroncry.
I’d also read gifted children by Ellen Winner, children above 180 iq by Miraca Gross and Genius in Residence by Audrey Grost and 5 levels of giftedness by Deborah Ruf.
forgiven12
New member
@aegisheart Check out Dr. Matt Zakreski, who specializes in working with gifted kids. He may have resources on his website or you may be in a position to have a consult with him.
https://www.drmattzakreski.com/
Disclosure: I know him personally, not professionally or as a client.
https://www.drmattzakreski.com/
Disclosure: I know him personally, not professionally or as a client.
@aegisheart My eldest has an IQ of 122, which is borderline gifted (130 is considered gifted, but 120+ generally get put into gifted programs at schools, whatever that means - I don't live in the US). My second kid is noticeably smart as well but we haven't had any testing done for him. Weirdly although I didn't think he had ADHD markers, his kindergarten teacher is saying that his attention is noticeably different to other kids his age and there are a few other things which stand out as quirky. I am diagnosed ADHD, never had an official IQ test but tend to do well at that kind of test.
For later, I really love the content by Seth Perler. You won't really need it yet I don't think, but worth a follow/bookmark.
For now, I love the Ross Greene CPS approach to any issues that come up in parenting/life with a neurodiverse kid. Have a look at the Lives in the Balance website. Maybe the FB group "The B Team", although it's incredibly intense and might not be the right time to look at it right now for you. Also RIE is great for toddler age and meshes well with the Ross Greene stuff.
Twice exceptional / 2E will be a useful search term for you and may bring up groups which are less annoying (although I lowkey hate the name...)
Story/anecdote time, in case you prefer to skip, I won't be offended, your time is precious right now!
I always knew my son was smart. I also struggled greatly with his behaviour especially between the ages of 3.5 - 5yo. I later discovered I had ADHD, and noticed this in him, and once this combination was apparent to me, I started to worry - was the ADHD masking the smartness? I had a friend who had very similar traits in her kids and she'd got the "gifted" diagnosis, and I worried that if I didn't get that, I was somehow holding him back.
Anyway, when he was 10 I took him to be assessed. His paediatrician and his teacher were like "WTF, no, this kid isn't ADHD?" so I took him to a specialist. The specialist said yes there are ADHD markers but I'm more worried about his anxiety. He scored on the 75th centile for intelligence but he was concerned because it was not at 100. She also was really anti medication which I didn't like. I tried to get in with the therapist she recommended, failed, tried another one, joined her waiting list, then lockdown happened and she never got back to me. I assumed therapy was cancelled due to lockdown so didn't try anywhere else, later found it never was in Germany. Three years later I decided to try another doctor, she immediately got it and pointed out the higher IQ and said he compensates really well.
So then there were 6 months where I tried to get him interested in ADHD content, self help, workbooks etc, talk to teachers and he's vaguely, politely interested but doesn't think any of this is relevant or helpful to him. This doctor helpfully suggested we have a follow up meeting 6 months later. He was supposed to meet us there and he was late (lol) so I ended up talking to her alone for 15 minutes and I said I was trying so hard not to fail him, and she asked me: Is he concerned about his grades? Is he frustrated? Is he interested in learning about ADHD? Is he asking for answers? No, no, no, no. He's doing fine. I don't need to pre-empt every single issue and fix it. And I would say the same for you. Look at your child. Are they happy? Then do nothing. Are they struggling? Then look at that. But you don't need to do anything if there isn't a problem. I was so worried that he might be missing out on opportunities because the ADHD was masking the giftedness, but then I see my friend's child in school and understand why she went looking for answers sooner, because he was climbing the walls at school, because he wasn't challenged. We never had that issue, and there are no "opportunities" that matter at school level anyway. He's already in the highest level of school in the German system, and that was before any diagnosis or investigation at all. I thought back to myself as a teenager. Age 13-14, I was not struggling. I was starting to struggle socially, but I always had because I was a nerd. When I was 16-17, I was struggling. I was asking for help, I was looking for answers, and nobody could give them to me, because ADHD is/was chronically underdiagnosed in girls, especially in 2004, and nobody thought that I could have a learning issue because I was smart. So, I can relax and wait. He might hit a point where he needs help, and then he will look for it, and I can offer it. But not yet.
4-5 months later, he has come to me unprompted and told me he's having difficulty concentrating in class. When we have his next meeting with the doctor, we might talk about medication or strategies. But I'm taking a back seat and letting him lead now. I don't need to let my anxieties tell me what's best for him, because they are probably wrong. As Ross Greene says, I need to not be a genius. Being a genius is all well and good but I don't have all the answers. My kid has the answers, I just need to ask the right questions at the right time.
Encourage curiosity, engage any and all interests, reward effort not results. But let them lead. And love them for who they are.
For later, I really love the content by Seth Perler. You won't really need it yet I don't think, but worth a follow/bookmark.
For now, I love the Ross Greene CPS approach to any issues that come up in parenting/life with a neurodiverse kid. Have a look at the Lives in the Balance website. Maybe the FB group "The B Team", although it's incredibly intense and might not be the right time to look at it right now for you. Also RIE is great for toddler age and meshes well with the Ross Greene stuff.
Twice exceptional / 2E will be a useful search term for you and may bring up groups which are less annoying (although I lowkey hate the name...)
Story/anecdote time, in case you prefer to skip, I won't be offended, your time is precious right now!
I always knew my son was smart. I also struggled greatly with his behaviour especially between the ages of 3.5 - 5yo. I later discovered I had ADHD, and noticed this in him, and once this combination was apparent to me, I started to worry - was the ADHD masking the smartness? I had a friend who had very similar traits in her kids and she'd got the "gifted" diagnosis, and I worried that if I didn't get that, I was somehow holding him back.
Anyway, when he was 10 I took him to be assessed. His paediatrician and his teacher were like "WTF, no, this kid isn't ADHD?" so I took him to a specialist. The specialist said yes there are ADHD markers but I'm more worried about his anxiety. He scored on the 75th centile for intelligence but he was concerned because it was not at 100. She also was really anti medication which I didn't like. I tried to get in with the therapist she recommended, failed, tried another one, joined her waiting list, then lockdown happened and she never got back to me. I assumed therapy was cancelled due to lockdown so didn't try anywhere else, later found it never was in Germany. Three years later I decided to try another doctor, she immediately got it and pointed out the higher IQ and said he compensates really well.
So then there were 6 months where I tried to get him interested in ADHD content, self help, workbooks etc, talk to teachers and he's vaguely, politely interested but doesn't think any of this is relevant or helpful to him. This doctor helpfully suggested we have a follow up meeting 6 months later. He was supposed to meet us there and he was late (lol) so I ended up talking to her alone for 15 minutes and I said I was trying so hard not to fail him, and she asked me: Is he concerned about his grades? Is he frustrated? Is he interested in learning about ADHD? Is he asking for answers? No, no, no, no. He's doing fine. I don't need to pre-empt every single issue and fix it. And I would say the same for you. Look at your child. Are they happy? Then do nothing. Are they struggling? Then look at that. But you don't need to do anything if there isn't a problem. I was so worried that he might be missing out on opportunities because the ADHD was masking the giftedness, but then I see my friend's child in school and understand why she went looking for answers sooner, because he was climbing the walls at school, because he wasn't challenged. We never had that issue, and there are no "opportunities" that matter at school level anyway. He's already in the highest level of school in the German system, and that was before any diagnosis or investigation at all. I thought back to myself as a teenager. Age 13-14, I was not struggling. I was starting to struggle socially, but I always had because I was a nerd. When I was 16-17, I was struggling. I was asking for help, I was looking for answers, and nobody could give them to me, because ADHD is/was chronically underdiagnosed in girls, especially in 2004, and nobody thought that I could have a learning issue because I was smart. So, I can relax and wait. He might hit a point where he needs help, and then he will look for it, and I can offer it. But not yet.
4-5 months later, he has come to me unprompted and told me he's having difficulty concentrating in class. When we have his next meeting with the doctor, we might talk about medication or strategies. But I'm taking a back seat and letting him lead now. I don't need to let my anxieties tell me what's best for him, because they are probably wrong. As Ross Greene says, I need to not be a genius. Being a genius is all well and good but I don't have all the answers. My kid has the answers, I just need to ask the right questions at the right time.
Encourage curiosity, engage any and all interests, reward effort not results. But let them lead. And love them for who they are.
@aegisheart Jamie glowacki, the oh crap lady, says in her podcast that she took her perfectionist and easily frustated son skiing so he could see adults literally falling on their asses. So he knows that it’s ok to make mistakes and not everything can and should be accomplished easily. Maybe something like this would help?