@dundermifflinfarmer Well my anecdotal evidence is that at 6 months PP I wouldn't be able to accurately describe how active my baby was in the womb. We didn't know the sex till birth, and I would say his movements were normal? I have no idea. All I remember is his lodging his feet under my ribs for hours and hours.
An interesting observation: A note on taking research with a grain of salt
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dundermifflinfarmer
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@grace4nan Isn't it so surprising when they come out with these little tiny feet after your ribs being pulverized for months?
@dundermifflinfarmer It was funny because they take days to fully "unfold" and with their knees up by their ears you understand how they were able to wedge that tiny foot so firmly under your rib.
stevesgirl
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@dundermifflinfarmer “Results: By the fourth month of pregnancy, mothers reported that males were significantly more active in the womb than females.“
By the fourth month?! Four months is less than 18 weeks. Many people don’t feel the first kicks until much later. Is it even possible for parents to notice differences in fetal activity so early on??
Anecdotal - my daughter was very, very active in utero - I have many videos of her kicking the hell out of my belly. My sister who was pregnant at the same time (with a boy) hardly ever experienced that. My daughter is now a very chill toddler, while my nephew basically doesn’t stop running.
By the fourth month?! Four months is less than 18 weeks. Many people don’t feel the first kicks until much later. Is it even possible for parents to notice differences in fetal activity so early on??
Anecdotal - my daughter was very, very active in utero - I have many videos of her kicking the hell out of my belly. My sister who was pregnant at the same time (with a boy) hardly ever experienced that. My daughter is now a very chill toddler, while my nephew basically doesn’t stop running.
dundermifflinfarmer
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@stevesgirl Oh my gosh my brain totally short circuited. How did I not think about that?!
@stevesgirl I’ve felt both my babies at about 14 weeks. I’m 21 weeks pregnant now, so it’s not something I’ve easily forgotten or confused like some people have suggested. And I remember exactly where I was the first time I felt my son, which narrows down my timeline. But all that said, I’m only just starting to notice my little dude’s kicking/moving routine now that he’s strong enough to kick and it isn’t just random flutters here and there. I’d say he’s about the same levels of activity as my son was. Mostly around meals and bedtime. Even down to the 3am grooving sessions to really make it fun for me lol.
My son’s a super chill dude. Starting to get wild now that he’s 2, but nothing like my nephew who is seemingly never tired. Wonder how this little one will be.
My son’s a super chill dude. Starting to get wild now that he’s 2, but nothing like my nephew who is seemingly never tired. Wonder how this little one will be.
writinggirl
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@dundermifflinfarmer My son was chill in utero absolutely wild now lol, my daughter was almost violent in utero bruised my ribs quite badly on a few occasions I would stumble some times with how strong her movements were lol and so far I would say she is calmer than my son. She does still have a strong kick though. Both has placentas in a similar position.
Will be interesting to see as she grows if she is as wild as he is
Will be interesting to see as she grows if she is as wild as he is
the_precious_one
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@dundermifflinfarmer Thanks for posting this! I think it's so important to evaluate scientific studies critically. In this one, as others have mentioned, one would have to consider recollection accuracy, placenta position, mother's baseline (did they have other babies to compare kick intensity?), and whether they knew baby's gender; plus, like you said, the fact that parents tend to describe boys and girls differently.
(Anecdotally, my boy 'felt' much more active in the womb compared to my girls. But, I had anterior placenta with both girls. And it was one of the girls who quietly damaged my rib, haha)
I wrote a book about baby's first year, and as I dove into the science I found that so, so many studies published in reputable journals had major flaws. Sometimes there was a methodology flaw from the onset; sometimes the setting was very unnatural and sample very specific, but then the results were extrapolated to 'all babies'; plus many other issues. I read over 800 papers but ended up using about 350.
(Anecdotally, my boy 'felt' much more active in the womb compared to my girls. But, I had anterior placenta with both girls. And it was one of the girls who quietly damaged my rib, haha)
I wrote a book about baby's first year, and as I dove into the science I found that so, so many studies published in reputable journals had major flaws. Sometimes there was a methodology flaw from the onset; sometimes the setting was very unnatural and sample very specific, but then the results were extrapolated to 'all babies'; plus many other issues. I read over 800 papers but ended up using about 350.
dundermifflinfarmer
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@the_precious_one Oh that's so interesting that you wrote a book! I guess you don't want to sacrifice your anonymity, but I would love to see it. If you feel comfortable, maybe PM me the link?
thecross22
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@dundermifflinfarmer We didn’t find out sex till birth but I had gestational diabetes that we diagnosed very early because I was monitoring with a blood glucose meter before pregnancy.
I felt kicks at 16 weeks and have great video for how active baby was in there. But as baby grew and I had to get stricter with diet, the intense kicking only picked up when I ate carbs that made baby dance. And by third trimester baby was very big and didn’t have as much room to do the massive carb kicks.
The baby is now 4 years old and is a very athletic girl. If we don’t run her out or ask her to jump out her energy on the trampoline first, it’s a disaster of a day to get things done. Even if we keep sugar consumption low. Not sure if this is gender or the fact that she comes from a line of college athletes (she has my husband’s build). She has always had a tough time sleeping and really excels in multiple sports.
I felt kicks at 16 weeks and have great video for how active baby was in there. But as baby grew and I had to get stricter with diet, the intense kicking only picked up when I ate carbs that made baby dance. And by third trimester baby was very big and didn’t have as much room to do the massive carb kicks.
The baby is now 4 years old and is a very athletic girl. If we don’t run her out or ask her to jump out her energy on the trampoline first, it’s a disaster of a day to get things done. Even if we keep sugar consumption low. Not sure if this is gender or the fact that she comes from a line of college athletes (she has my husband’s build). She has always had a tough time sleeping and really excels in multiple sports.
@dundermifflinfarmer This isn’t science. Was this actually published in a peer reviewed journal? They didn’t control for so many confounding factors. This would never pass review in a legitimate journal. I can only hope it came from a pay-to-publish journal. (Link didn’t work for me)
dundermifflinfarmer
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I'll look into that.seeker1231
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@dundermifflinfarmer If they were to accurately find out whether there was a sex difference in fetal movement, the only somewhat accurate way I can think of is by repeated ultrasounds and some sort of systemic qualifier for the ultrasound tech/radiologist on what defines "movement".
Otherwise it could be either that parents associate males with being more active due to societal bias, or that female fetuses are more likely to have anterior placentas, or that parents retrospectively remember their active child as being more active in utero. Or some other unknown factor.
Studies like this one really show why its important to critically think about research. Especially research that fits with our own experiences or what we want/expect to hear, since we tend to be less critical of it.
Otherwise it could be either that parents associate males with being more active due to societal bias, or that female fetuses are more likely to have anterior placentas, or that parents retrospectively remember their active child as being more active in utero. Or some other unknown factor.
Studies like this one really show why its important to critically think about research. Especially research that fits with our own experiences or what we want/expect to hear, since we tend to be less critical of it.
dundermifflinfarmer
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@seeker1231 Oh, that's a good point you made there! What defines "movement"? My LO had the hiccups quite often. I could feel it, and the ultrasound techs always thought it was funny.
Also, i think they would have to control for things like polyhydramnios. If you have a massive amount of amniotic fluid and an average sized fetus, the fetus has more room to move around and might be more active, but the mother might not feel it the same way because the fetus has space to play.
Also, i think they would have to control for things like polyhydramnios. If you have a massive amount of amniotic fluid and an average sized fetus, the fetus has more room to move around and might be more active, but the mother might not feel it the same way because the fetus has space to play.
@seeker1231 Hmm. Maybe a belly band with built-in strain gauges, so the monitoring could extend over longer periods in the comfort of home? Only applicable once the kid is big enough for their movement to be felt externally, but might provide some quantitative data.
@dundermifflinfarmer LO is almost 5 months and I couldn’t tell you now how active she was in each month of pregnancy. I don’t think she was super active- mostly at night I felt her move but I thought I’d feel her much more. Since she was born though she’s super active, especially her legs. I’m covered in bruises from her constant kicks!
For the last two months of pregnancy (and the following 5 months!) the little pet gets hiccups at least once a day though, so that movement continued.
For the last two months of pregnancy (and the following 5 months!) the little pet gets hiccups at least once a day though, so that movement continued.
dundermifflinfarmer
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@nalex1066 Oh man the hiccups! Mine got hiccups like five times a day (no exaggeration). She still is a hiccupy kid, gets them every time she laughs too hard 
rescuedsheep
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@dundermifflinfarmer Totally anecdotal, but I've only had one baby (a girl), and she was crazy active in utero and is still crazy active at 19 months old. On the flip side, my mom claims that I (a female) barely moved in utero and was a very chill toddler who would happily sit still for long periods of time.
@dundermifflinfarmer Thank you for this contribution. It shows something I have had issues with for a while now: laypeople who read research studies themselves, but clearly lack the training to do so. Sometimes we jokingly call this "pubmed warriors" at home but I do find it an issue. I love research accessibility. But most random people are not able to do the critical thinking you demonstrate here. They read an abstract, copy the link and post it as fact. The abstract often does not delve into methodological issues also. In addition, this might be a paper from a rogue scientist who holds a viewpoint that is generally dismissed by others in the field, which you wouldn't know if you're not in the field.
This is why generally I'd refer to consensus statements. Those are usually based on what the majority of researchers in a field think and they are the result of interpretations of research by experts. I'm a researcher myself and I could not properly examine, for example, medical studies! It's not my field.
This is why generally I'd refer to consensus statements. Those are usually based on what the majority of researchers in a field think and they are the result of interpretations of research by experts. I'm a researcher myself and I could not properly examine, for example, medical studies! It's not my field.