Teen retaliation

[scottwilson]

My teen (17m) doesn’t like limits.
Tonight, his limit for internet usage kicked in. He told me I had to change it or he would make my life miserable. I told him once he had finished his chores (namely walking our dog) and homework I would be willing to reconsider.
He proceeded to flick the lights on and off in the room where I was sleeping, then turn them all off and leave.
He unplugged the router in a weird way and I can’t get it back on. I have to start remote work at 8 am.
He took the chocolate I let him know I bought for just me (because I can’t buy shared sweets at our house and expect he will ever leave any for me) and ate the entire thing.

They may seem small, but this sort of stuff has been happening for so long. I’m burned out. What would you do? What are the consequences for making my life difficult because he doesn’t like limits?

TIA - a mom who has all but given up

P.s. our district placed him at a school where if he doesn’t turn in homework (how they show competency in a subject) they will extend his required hours in the classroom until competency has been shown. Each session comes at a rate of $125. School will pay tuition but we are responsible for these extra sessions. He’s at 7 sessions i have to pay for this semester. So I can’t just let him skip the homework and suffer consequences of bad grades- because I am the one who will, quite literally, pay. I tried to help him get a job and he no call no showed the second weekend.

 

[bear78]

@scottwilson I'm so sorry about your challenges.

For the school, that is a crazy model. I would never tie my pocket to my teen's ability to turn in work. We'd pay a fortune. That adds more pressure, and it seems to me you need less.

We have a difficult teen who also gets belligerent about his phone, but not to that point.

Are you single parenting? I do rely a bit on my husband to be the ultimate line when my son won't listen.

What gets him to respect and back off is to
1. Know we will not change our minds
2. Know that we will take his phone away even longer if he persists.

But it's hard. I feel your pain.

 

[scottwilson]

@bear78 Thank you.
Yes, it’s just me. He definitely lacks a male role model.
The school model is not ideal but we are very lucky they will send him there- our district is extremely under resourced and I fought long and hard for this- so thankful I never have to fight with him to go to school anymore.

You are absolutely right about not changing my mind, and about taking it away for longer. Holding strong boundaries is so exhausting. I’m pretty good at not changing my mind, but I think his anger deters me from those continued consequences. I was wondering how I would even get his phone, and then what kind of a blow up I would have if I were successful. But, necessary. We have another year of high school so I have to figure something out and find my strength.

Thanks for the reminders, and the compassion

 

[rbnum1fan]

@scottwilson That is tough. Lots of kids are subconsciously trying to see how far you’ll go before you break. If you wait longer enough, they give up.

You need to present an unflappable exterior. If it looks like they are breaking you, they will double down.

I recommend a book called “Boundaries” by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. (It does come from a biblical perspective, so be aware of that before buying.)

Does your son have any mental health challenges? If yes, this could be a good thing to bring up with his provider.

 

[zoecc]

@scottwilson Girl it sounds like you need a more no nonsense approach. You need to put your foot down and get him in line that is extremely disrespectful and from what it seems he doesn't appreciate you which is sad bc it sounds like you're a great mom that cares for his well being. But being a parent you've gotta be the bad guy and be assertive bc quite literally he could get attacked in the real world for ever even trying to do these kinds of things to ppl. Take it while he's sleeping and tell him that's just the case and will be for the uncertain future until he changes his behavior. My son is high functioning autistic and I have always kept a hard line with him bc I want what is best for him and it was so tough so many times but he is a very polite & respectful 13 year old, everyone at his school loves him, he's doing good acedmically and I keep him very busy with chores bc I have a bunch of gen z boys that work for me and 1 thing you can't fix is lazy. Good luck to you hun .

 

[scottwilson]

@zoecc Oh, thank you. You are 1000% right. About the firmness, about standing up for what is important to build productive and mindful children, about how this will affect him in the real world. Thanks for seeing me.

 

[chadm]

@scottwilson Is he in therapy? If not, please consider getting him into counseling and a psychiatric evaluation. It sounds like he has some issues that are out of your scope as a parent.

Hugs to you, Mama, you're doing the best you can.

 

[scottwilson]

@chadm Yes, it’s slow going. Sometimes I need to talk to other parents in addition to our therapist, it’s helpful even to hear that this is beyond what is normal. Validating. Thank you.

 

[halceko19]

@scottwilson It sounds like he doesn't show you any respect, which is something that needs to be taught from a young age.

Question: What consequences does he face for flickering your lights and unplugging your router?

 

[scottwilson]

@halceko19 I was a teen parent still in the throes of anger towards my own mom when I had him, so this is definitely real and he wasn’t taught he respect. His dad was abusive and I had to leave, so his 0-3 experience was definitely riddled with stress and poor role and distress tolerance modeling.

I don’t know what the consequences were/are. I reduced the amount of time he has on his phone today. He will not have any more time available until he completes his homework and outstanding chores. I went to sleep and this morning the internet was back, so he used it for fear mongering. I would entirely rescind permission but am afraid he will unplug again, which I can’t have happen when working remotely.

I feel like an apology or restitution is in order but I don’t know how to approach that.

 

[halceko19]

@scottwilson Can the router be put into a lock box or locked room so he can't have access? Your ability to work should not depend on his whim.

It's also possible that guilt from his early years caused you to allow treatment as if you're his peer instead of his authority.

What did you do when he flickered your lights as you were trying to sleep?

 

[scottwilson]

@halceko19 I asked him to stop, ignored it, ignored the router situation. Once he was gone, I turned the lights off and went to sleep. I felt thankful he didn’t escalate again.

 

[elina99]

@scottwilson Goodmorning @scottwilson - I am going to give you my advice and you can love it or hate me. Disclaimer: Parent of two adopted teenagers, one who was on suicide watch during Covid, had 3 therapists and two years later is now a straight A student on the football team getting ready for colleges.

Something to keep in mind, if he walks out that door, would you fight for him to come back? If the answer is yes, then you need to start bending. If the answer is no, you can keep fighting and he will leave on his own and decide if he ever comes back.

1- you have done nothing wrong, we are all learning here, but you have to make some changes to survive this. * I noticed the comment about teaching respect and you being young mom, it is totally ok. I was 24 when I adopted kids, we make mistakes, communicate them and move forward, do NOT fight to go back and try again.

2 - To everyone telling you "structure" - what you need to hear is "consistency" at 17 you are not going to re-steer this ship, you have one goal and one goal only, keep them alive. Consistency means you personally have a routine and YOU stick to it, this will help build a safe place to exist. Teens are rebellious but knowing what is going to happen next makes them feel safe. You are NOT going to inforce it on them, just invite them to join.

3 - Screen time limits are not gaining you anything at 17, you are just causing an argument, so drop it. Taking their phone away is also a useless battle, what are you gaining? A pissed off teen who learned nothing - anyone who tells you they will stop if you take it away enough is someone who has a ton of free time to ride the freakout train, which again, results in no lessons learned, just hours wasted.

4 - @karla1962-Pomegranate-328 is correct, he needs more control over his life, you are going to feel uncomfortable with it, but he has control over his life when he walks out your door so stop trying to regain control within your walls. At this point you are roommates, so respect him as one and vocalize boundaries, but you are not going to "control him." I also went through the un-plugging game, he knows you have to work, he knows you'll back down.

5 - There is something else going on, it could be the control fight, it could be something else in their world, but you need to give them space to talk, and therapy will get to the bottom of it.

I will leave you with this, I was a perfect student, my parents ruled with an iron fist, and lights were out by 10 pm. I smiled when I left the house, but let me tell you the second I walked out the door I was smoking, drinking and sleeping around. Just because he is acting out does not make him a bad kid, it means there is a communication breakdown. So you have a choice here, you can open communication and bend your rules, or keep fighting for control and lose your kid. I promise those are the only two options.

 

[scottwilson]

@elina99 Hi there. I think there are some nuggets of wisdom in your post. I would benefit from loosening in some places, but still tightening up in others. I agree there are days where he feels he wouldn’t want to come back. Most of the time, we have a pretty solid relationship. Control is definitely a thing so I will bring that up with my own therapist.

This child has been to wilderness therapy and residential- he knows therapy intimately. He doesn’t talk openly with therapists and has a core dislike of them or thinks therapy is stupid, so that’s a challenge for resourcing. I’m curious how you would approach the giving more leeway on limits? He’s the kid who will not go to bed, and not get up for school in the morning. He will not remember to eat, and sadly to tell you, in the last couple of months, he actually started getting up to go to the bathroom consistently while using media. I know it’s hard to believe. But accidents were still a thing until recently, and media is the culprit. He gets so absorbed in what he is doing that he doesn’t stop to switch gears and take care of himself, and then can’t think why he’s such a hangry mess at the end of the day. He won’t independently take his medicine, or do pretty much any task unless it is expressly required, and followed through upon with limits. I feel like I need to simultaneously loosen and tighten my fist, and don’t always know how to do that. I feel like there are some undiagnosed issues here.

I 1000% have been considering how my approach affects our relationship long term. It scares me so much because I have worked very had to get us help, and it feels futile. some of these challenges have affected me so much that I have struggled to manage both he and my career, which has led to my own suicidal ideation. At one point the accidents were so bad I had to quit my job because school couldn’t handle them and I had to go pick him up every time it happened, which clearly doesn’t work for most workplaces. It’s better now, mostly, but we have still have days where his needs supercede my ability to work.

If you have practical day to day type suggestions for how to let go, while also maintaining balance in our household, I’d be interested in hearing them. I want to thoughtfully loosen, so we don’t boomerang into the abyss that is defiance and lack of self care.

 

[elina99]

@scottwilson I would continue to help, just like most of us would, but that fact that you are still having bathroom issues at his age is far beyond Reddit therapy. You need to bring in new professionals to look at the situation. There is something missing in this equation and I could not keep giving advice not knowing the whole story. Contact your pediatrician, or doctor, tell them you have a 17 year old forgetting to get up to use the restroom. That is not a media problem. That is a physical or mental health issue that needs to be addressed before you make any other changes to your routine.

 

[scottwilson]

@elina99 Oh, I know. The medical profession is quite lax at handling this. They don’t have many solutions for enuresis or encopresis. I may delete my comment just to protect him but I think i asked here because I feel at a loss with the lack of support from our providers. I didn’t share that initially because it’s sensitive information, and we can’t share everything, but with your response I want ed to clarify that I’m definitely working with a high needs child. I am bringing him in for some further testing next week, but autism has been ruled out, and so I am returning to the physical aspect of things to see if there is something else underlying going on. I feel pretty defeated by the medical system. Thanks.

 

[elina99]

@scottwilson I might escalate to local colleges and go visit higher end doctors just to ask questions about it until someone gives you an answer. I'm not saying people don't get distracted but this seems like a physical issue far before it is a mental issue.

 

[scottwilson]

@elina99 Encopresis and enuresis are cross listed as a physical condition and are also in the DSM-5. But, what they don’t do is identify the source, they bandaid it. For years I just thought it was trauma related but recently I’ve been wondering about Ehlers danlos syndrome. If you look up the first two, you will see many families deal with this, many more than you might imagine. Many Facebook groups dedicated to the topic. But really they’re all bandaids, and if you can’t get buy-in from your kid to do the therapies, there’s not much to be done about it. I do wonder if a diagnosis of EDS would help us to understand the cause which may get him to consider taking more initiative around his physical wellbeing. Fingers crossed.

 

[michaelo]

@scottwilson Consider reading “smart but Scattered” teen edition. Have him listen or read it too, if he is willing. It talks about executive function, starting tasks, emotional control, etc. things your son may be struggling with. He’s 17, so honestly, YOU limiting the internet so it sounds like he is a little behind developmentally. I think it is important, that as they approach 16 or 17, that they understand how to regulate their own screen time in a safe way, since they will need these skills as they start college and/or a job.

Consider writing a contract with him, that he actually is a huge part of, that describes his behavior & chore expectations, complete with the consequences when the agreement is breached. This gives him a lot of control and sets clear boundaries. Many therapists and parenting book recommend it.

Last, connect with him if you can — here is my teen parenting strategy, and it is controversial (but discussed in the book, The Available Parent by Dr. Duffy) — I am basically a type of friend with my child, not like BFF, but we genuinely like each other through mutual activities and share tidbits about our life. Obviously, I adore them and they know they have my unconditional love, but they actually reciprocate and want me to have a good life too. Having this connection prevents this behavior most of the time, and if they slip up — it allows me to call out this type of behavior for what it is — “you lost your temper, and wanted to punish me. I am sorry you were this angry. But what happens if you did that to a peer OR your girlfriend did that to you?… talk about this, listen do not to do it again.” As a whole, they are logical, feel guilt, apologize, and do better…just like I do, when I mess up.

 

[scottwilson]

@michaelo Thank you! I have this book- I think I lent it out. You’re right that I am acting as his frontal lobe right now, and I also have adhd so that’s pretty exhausting for me. I’d like him to regulate, but I’m scared to release control and then go through times of extreme disregulation due to his inability to actually manage his time.

We have had a contract in the past, and I think you are right that we need to revisit this. The consequences aren’t clear and that’s where we get into the weeds.

As for connecting, I think we have a pretty good relationship. But also I’m finding it harder to do this as he has been declining time together more often recently, and I’m feeling so fed up/drained by the defiance that I don’t have the energy for both of us. But we do play board games and watch shows, occasionally do things together.