Teen retaliation

@scottwilson I might also just suggest that you get some of his input when making up the contract. That will make him feel like he has some control which is important at that age. I just had to do a contract with my daughter regarding School attendance so she has very clear understanding of what the consequences will be and she has agreed that they are reasonable. Catch him at a time when he's being reasonable, then sit down and make a contract.
 
@justme12345678910 The above is what I came here to say. Now is the time for him to learn self regulation. It’s the hardest phase we’ve been through as family but well worth him understanding it’s his life not mine. There will be less rebelling. I would let off the reins before he’s 18. Good luck.
 
@scottwilson So we just sat down last night at dinner and had a conversation/agreement. She doesn't think it's fair that I have her phone and the modem set to shut off at 11:00 on school nights. She thinks that because she's 15½ she should be able full access to her phone.

I reminded her why I put those settings in. Social media messes with her mental health to the point of depression and self harm.

We decided if for the rest of the school year she can go to bed at a decent time(not bypass the downtime set on her phone) wake up ready for school, and get passing grades, I will remove all of the blocks when school is out for summer. She helped come up with the expectations and she agreed if they aren't being met the settings stay or if she was slipping next year they'd go back on. I added the caveat that if her mental health started getting bad I was going to start limiting her social media again and she agreed.

I have found that when we're coming up with an agreement it works so much better if there's something to work towards rather than trying not to lose something. Rewards over punishment.
 
@justme12345678910 I have three kids with phones: ages 14, 16, and 17. They all, by contract, are required to charge their phones in my room at night.

My 17 year old recently thanked us for setting limits when he was younger. He hated it then, but sees the benefits now.
 
@rbnum1fan Ah, you also have a contract! I love this idea. I tried when I got him a phone but didn’t set the limit firmly enough. He definitely spends all of his time on screen, from the moment he wakes up until sleeping, so I’ve been trying to motivate him to do other activities on the weekends, at least for part of each day. Thanks for letting me know how it is at your house, I find this so helpful.
 
@justme12345678910 Hi slippery squirrel! Thank you so much for sharing what you are working on.
We definitely see the effects of social media on mental health over here, and it’s not pretty or sustainable for anyone!
I shared some of the things you worked on with him this evening and he said he thought I’d get a different response on r/teenagers, but then was much more receptive to limits at the end of the night, despite expressing displeasure. It was a normal expression of displeasure.

You are so right that we need something to work toward rather than taking something away. Thank you for your detailed response of what you do at your house. I find these glimpses into other households to be reassuring and encouraging. I wish you luck with your social media/protection of her mental health process! It’s a worthy limit to be teaching them, for both their sanity and our own.
 
@scottwilson Sounds like he needs to feel like someone is on his side.

Teens still want love and support.
I had to shift gears and remember I was trying to raise an adult, not control a child until they walked out the door.
 
@scottwilson It sounds like you're dealing with some sort of oppositional defiance disorder.

My oldest has it and it's a nightmare. I can't point to anything that was 'successful.' He's out of the house now but he's incredibly difficult to even get along with.

It's exceedingly challenging because it almost doesn't matter what you do or try, nothing worked for us. I could leave him alone and he would completely fail and didn't care. If I tried to engage with him on his school work and it's status it would become a literal violent fight (he would get violent, I called the cops multiple times, once he called the cops on me and they pulled him outside to tell him how wrong he was). When he moved out, all he does it contact me when he needs money or something like that.

I'd cut his phone and figure out how to lock him out of your space in the house. I literally had to create a safe space in my house for me and my other child away from the oldest. When he moved out the freedom we experienced from the torment of this child was incredible. I will never let him in my home again. It's not easy to be in a situation like this. You love your kid but they get completely deranged and there isn't anything you can do about it.

I've always been told that firm boundaries are needed. I would want to cut the phone off completely or at LEAST but further limitations on his phone saying that the more he acts out the worse those things are going to get. Compliance with your house rules will lead to fewer restrictions. Period. Lock yourself away and if he starts banging on your door 'to annoy' you or does any property damage, call the cops for help because your options are literally few.

Edit: I see you're dealing with some of the same things I've been dealing with regard to self harm and violence. I don't have any solutions but I can tell you that you're not alone.
 
@walter45 Thank you so much. Yes, it’s a lot like ODD. I thought maybe we had moved out of that territory, but I realize it’s like an abusive relationship, when someone says “oh, but he’s been better lately” when the cycle is at its peak.

He has another year of school. In some ways he is very sweet, so it’s hard to just want to totally be done with him, but more and more I fantasize about getting out, selling my house or at least renting it out so he literally has no choice but to move. I can’t imagine getting him to leave otherwise. I can’t see how he will hold a job when he cares so little about showing up, has so few conflict resolution skills.

I have French doors to my bedroom which are very hard to lock. Maybe I could find a way to add an interior lock. He has definitely threatened to smash them before. Last week was spring break, so I think we are partly dealing with stress from lack of structure. I should have taken the week off but things are busy at work. I’m paying for it though. Consequences, enforcement, no flexibility until compliance. It’s what we need. I’m so tired. He’s so manipulative and sappy sweet or threatening self harming at just the right times to butter me up. I have to be better at seeing through these behaviors.

Thank you. It’s very isolating as I am sure you know. It’s nice to be reminded I’m not alone.
 
@scottwilson Yup! All of that sounds so familiar.

I still deal with him as I haven't totally cut him off but it's so stressful and hard. He has to do everything the hardest way.

He's got a job (a good thing!) but he's involved with an equally toxic girl (I should say woman - they are both 19) and they feed off of each other's toxic traits and because they accept each other there is no motivation to change.

The job is the bright spot but he uses an ebike I gave him for transportation and he keeps breaking it in stupid ways. I think this will be my last time fixing it. I'm tired of throwing money into a relationship with someone who treats me like garbage.
 
@walter45 I’m sorry mama. It’s so hard. I do think they have to learn the hard way at some point, like oh, if I am disrespectful to others, they won’t help me anymore. So there’s a balance of us also sticking by our boundaries and prioritizing ourselves. It’s just hard to watch them flounder.
 
@scottwilson Is there something you can take away that he would not want to live without? If you find the right carrot, you can really make headway! We used the privilege of having a phone and an older car to use as bait to get compliance from our very independent teens. You can’t tie all behavior to one thing, though. So for us, not following our minimal house rules (home by 11, tell us where you’re going etc)was tied to car use. School performance was tied to the phone. And we had to really be willing to remove things, or it will not work! If they think they can charm you out of the punishment, it will never compel them to behave. We used positive reinforcement as well- any year they got mostly A’s and nothing below a B, they got 500 dollars. We do not always end up having to pay out, but sometimes we do! Our oldest is now in college and on the deans list 2 years running, after all that behavior modification in high school.
 
@scottwilson Have you looked into ADHD? I don't know if that ties into your situation or not but your post is reminding me of my daughter's issues of emotional regulation, inability to task switch and general argumentative behavior when not on her medication. My kid has been diagnosed with inattentive ADHD, similar to her father. In a classroom you wouldn't know she was struggling because she can occasionally hyper focus or just randomly zone out quietly without much disruptive behavior. Keeping track of anything and everything was a struggle until we got her diagnosis.

You may want to consider that his behavior might be related to a slower development of the prefrontal cortex. ADHD is one result, but it's linked to a bunch of other things that could happen independently of each other like dyslexia, auditory processing disorder, oppositional defiance disorder and even bipolar disorder. Sorry to mention if you've already considered these things!
 
@joseph92 It’s all good, this is definitely what we are dealing with! I am hoping to build up my actionable strategy when he is escalated or to prevent escalation
 
@scottwilson Poor you what a nightmare.
His behaviour seems so childish and petty. I also think you also might need to give him more control over his life. I think you need a mature conversation with him and a reset
 
@ajhnh It is childish and petty, and you’re right he needs more control over his life. It’s tough when he’s not one to manage himself or his time. He’s been on spring break for a week and goes back to school tomorrow, I had hounded him at the beginning of the week to just knock the work out, he told me to back off and let him manage it, and he’s done none of the work independently.
I find it difficult to give him control when he doesn’t then take the control. I know it will take longer- but I feel sort of lost as to how to pass the torch when his lack of follow through affects me (and the dog!) so greatly. Any ideas?
 
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