Pro-Birth v Pro-Life

ryandog

New member
"I do not believe that just because you are opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, a child educated, a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is."

-Benedictine Sister Joan Chittister

Interview with Bill Moyers in 2004
 
@ryandog This right here. If you don’t think we should have paid maternity leave, food stamps, wic, daycare vouchers, and easy access to free health care, but yet still claim to be pro-life, I have questions.
 
@joeysoley I also want incentives for families where one parent chooses to stay home. Conservatives are always talking about the importance of families, homeschooling, etc, but most American families cannot survive on one income. My husband has an excellent job and we’re still having to cut back on groceries. It’s ridiculous. I can’t imagine how people less privileged than we are are faring:(
 
@soulsearchingservant Just an FYI on retirement: you are entitled to a "spousal IRA" as long as your partner makes enough to cover both of your contributions. It's a normal IRA, no need for a special account. The yearly contribution limit is only $6k, compared to the much higher limit of 401(k)s and similar workplace accounts...but it's certainly something!
 
@soulsearchingservant I mean, if you're talking a pension, I think people fail to realize that a) the pension system required current day wages to be stifled in order to fund future wages, b) most Americans never got one, and c) retirement plans do exist today in the forms of 401ks and various tax shelters the government has set up for the middle class (primarily IRAs, but also HSAs, and some other programs).
 
@skittles78 My kids are now 20 and 22; if this had happened ten or even five years ago (the war, the virus, the inflation, and this political BS) we wouldn’t have made it.

There were weeks I had less than $10 to buy groceries. And things weren’t nearly as bad as they are now.
 
@joeysoley Yup. The human right to privacy and women having a say in their autonomy is what Roe was based on and now that’s completely in question based on the cases Alito used to argue there was little “deep-rooted history” for basis:
Contraceptives, cohabitation, Obetgeffel’s same-sex marriage protections, gay and LGBTQ+ work protections—everything is up in the air if this draft is published as is.

However Buck v Bell wasn’t touched which is the states right to sterilize the “unfit” and “feeble minded”

The only solutions even proposed if a woman becomes impregnated and can’t care for the child is she can drop it off anonymously using the safe haven law or “have little reason to fear the baby will find a suitable home” should she need to place it for adoption.

(After all, that’s a pretty lucrative business for Catholic and Christian organizations)

So… No universal maternity leave. No additional insurance or government programs. No tax changes. No state funding. No planned parenthood. Nothing for school education for sex Ed, orphanages, foster care, CPS, etc. And no leniency for rape/deformities/incest.

Nothing but comparing Roe and Casey to several other autonomous rulings and systematically picking them apart because they’re not “deep-rooted in history” and denying womens “rights” based on the fact that Roe and Casey didn’t strengthen their arguments against other constitutional amendments while referencing that before 1970s people were held criminally liable for abortions and using 17th century England as a fkn starting point for our “history”.
 
@ryandog I always think about my first pregnancy when it comes to Roe v. Wade. I started going into pre-term labor at 3 months. Was on bed rest at home for 2 weeks. Then hospitalized bed rest until he was born at 29 weeks over an hour away from my home, since this was the closest hospital with a NICU. We then did 3 months of NICU.

What if I had been a single parent. I would’ve lost everything. My home, my car, my clothes, everything, because I wouldn’t of been able to pay my bills. I would’ve been in the hospital so I wouldn’t of been able to retrieve anything. There is no plan to help woman they would now force into that situation. It’s all bullshit to make woman incubators for their religion.
 
@joeysoley I’ve had chronic migraines since I was 5 and had a treatment plan since I was 11 that had me on class D drugs so my neurologist and ob had always worked in tandem to make sure if I got pregnant; it was on a controlled plan bc I’d have to wean off the Rx first but when I was 25 I was dx with PCOS & endometriosis and the ob explained I was infertile unless I wanted to attempt treatment. However I had come to terms with not having a baby.

At 32 I had an ovarian cyst rupture and it bled all the way into my abdomen; needed an emergency laparoscopy and WE (my husband and I) agreed that they’d take the ovary as well - after all, I didn’t need it and it was just causing issues. The surgeon decided in the middle of the procedure to LEAVE the ovary and INSTEAD scraped my tubes. Didn’t ask me (obviously I was sedated) or my husband in the waiting room AND WE DIDNT KNOW BECAUSE IT WASNT THE AGREED UPON PLAN.

I got pregnant a month later while on 3 Class D drugs and when I went back to the OB/surgeon and he told me I should be happy bc he’s given me the chance to have a child and then tried to take me off my meds which gave me preclampsia, and a DVT. My neurologist pressured me to get an abortion bc of the huge risk of birth defects but I was wasn’t able to afford it. My placenta never attached properly, I had to be induced a month early, I had two large bleeds and then my placenta fluid started dropping even after being on bed rest the whole month before and my daughter has cerebral palsy. That’s not even counting all the migraines that I couldn’t treat or the time I went to to the ER for the worst one I’d ever had and they REFUSED to treat me and said they were the voice of my unborn child as if I didn’t even exist.
 
@ryandog Honest question, how do you feel now about having a child? Would you do it differently if you had the chance? Asking because you had to come to terms with not having a baby then unexpectedly had one. Must have been one hell of an emotional roller coaster on top of the physical one.
 
@heisluv My husband committed suicide when she was 16 months old and it was very hard; we both came from very abusive families and it caught up to him. But until then I was the “working” parent. A year later I got rid of my house and sold back my stake in my store and set out to change everything about myself to raise her. She has given my life purpose.

I don’t think I could do it differently based on who she is. But having her was too much on him. He wasn’t ready to be a father and despite loving her it definitely contributed to his death which is a very hard pill to swallow.
 
@ryandog Holy fuck OP, this brought me to tears. What an absolute fucking nightmare all around. I don't even know what to say except sending you all the internet hugs I have.
 
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