instrument150
New member
@tennis4375 Hey! A year later- how did you like working with cradle coach? Was it helpful for y’all
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PLS sleep group
- Thread starter nickseand
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- let's chat sleep training
tennis4375
New member
@instrument150 It did. Maybe slightly more than sleep club. I think looking back both things were helpful in their own way, but the cradle coach was definitely better in regards to feeling supported. I think that in my case, a bigger step into sleeping better was knowing that it is not all or nothing. Babies will cry, not because they are sad, but because that is the only way they can communicate. I spent MONTHS trying different no cry methods and feeling like a failure if baby cried at all. I had to learn that even no cry methods doesn't mean baby wont have opinions. They were very good at holding my hand through the process and really working with me knowing that I was having a hard time letting baby cry at all(1st time mom). They gave me a schedule and the constant emailing back and forth was really what I needed. They did ask for baby to stay in his crib for the full duration of his nap though, and as a stickler for rules, I wanted to follow them but also, if baby woke up earlier, I basically agonized over it. In the end, I decided to follow their plan but make it fit what feels right for us (seems obvious now lol). So we followed the schedule and tried to keep him in his crib, but if he needed help, we would gently help him or understand that he was done with his nap. They also want to have baby on a food schedule which for my boob obsessed baby, didn't work. So we just didn't do that. Eventually he stretched out his feeds on his own.
Did their help change everything and help baby start sleeping through the night? No. But it did change some things for the better. He slept longer stretches, I knew what to expect and I had someone I could bounce ideas and worries with and It made me a little bit more confident.
I think it was helpful, but also I needed to find what worked for us and be a bit more firm when advocating. Like, at one point, baby was doing great on a 2 nap schedule even though he was "supposed" to be in a 3 nap schedule. He just needed less sleep then and I had to break the rules. We sort of used a bit of both resources because our baby is a bit wild. He did great on a by the clock schedule and now at almost 2, he sleeps 11hrs at night with a 2hr nap from 12-2. He didn't fully sleep through the night until a year old tho. But im told that other babies are easier. However, after sleep training it was definitely waaay better.
I think we ended up with a combination of: refining what I was okay with, crying wise, pausing before going in, having baby on a schedule with slightly less sleep but using gentler methods (fuss it out and pupd) and also, age. It got easier with age. He was waking up only once and then after the year, sleeping through the night.
Im sorry, this is so rambly lol.
Did their help change everything and help baby start sleeping through the night? No. But it did change some things for the better. He slept longer stretches, I knew what to expect and I had someone I could bounce ideas and worries with and It made me a little bit more confident.
I think it was helpful, but also I needed to find what worked for us and be a bit more firm when advocating. Like, at one point, baby was doing great on a 2 nap schedule even though he was "supposed" to be in a 3 nap schedule. He just needed less sleep then and I had to break the rules. We sort of used a bit of both resources because our baby is a bit wild. He did great on a by the clock schedule and now at almost 2, he sleeps 11hrs at night with a 2hr nap from 12-2. He didn't fully sleep through the night until a year old tho. But im told that other babies are easier. However, after sleep training it was definitely waaay better.
I think we ended up with a combination of: refining what I was okay with, crying wise, pausing before going in, having baby on a schedule with slightly less sleep but using gentler methods (fuss it out and pupd) and also, age. It got easier with age. He was waking up only once and then after the year, sleeping through the night.
Im sorry, this is so rambly lol.
instrument150
New member
@tennis4375 No this is so helpful. Thank you. I think the, “gentle method does not mean no tears at all” concept is some thing that my husband and I really have to internalize. Also, I know that the biggest help in all of this is just time and letting him grow and learn at his own pace, it’s just really hard to keep that in perspective when you’re going on five or six weeks of 1 to 2 hours of sleep at night. I’m really torn because I love the idea of having constant support and having somebody spell everything out for me and having strict guidelines to follow, but at the same time I have my doubts about spending so much money on some things that may or may not work and strategies that we can just look up and implement for free.
tennis4375
New member
@instrument150 Honestly, you might get that help from the precious little sleep fb group (which you can join by just having the book). All the mods are super active and very helpful. Just keep in mind that it is okay to not do things exactly as they suggest if it doesn't feel right for your baby. Also, in my experience helping baby sleep sometimes, if needed, wont fully mess up everything. It gets easier with age. It truly does. Feel free to message me if you want to talk.
@tennis4375 Thank you!
@nickseand The thing is the Facebook group give drastically different advice to the book sometimes. I find you can read the book, be following it to the letter, post in the FB group and they'll tell you something completely different. The book is basically paying for access to the Facebook group at this point.
@nickseand I love love love PLS. I love their online facebook group and they've helped me troubleshoot quite a lot over the last 2 years. I recommend their book to almost everyone posting for sleep help. But $350 is such a steep price for 4 weeks of support! Honestly it would even be steep for a lifetime guarantee of personalized support. Personally I'd never pay it. It seems extortionary to me and I'm honestly a little bummed that they have succumbed to this business model.
@neilgram I agree it's a lot of money and don't think I would do it. That said, I think the "program" lasts four weeks and then support is more ongoing by way of a smaller FB group for people who have "graduated" from the program. I haven't done it, this was just my reading of their posts about it which I read out of curiosity the other day.
bunsofaluminum
New member
@neilgram
Same. This is the first I've heard of PLS's club and I'm disappointed. I understand that $10 for a book isnt a lucrative business model. But $350 for 4 weeks of support? Yikes! One of the reasons I have loved PLS is because they were different from other "parenting gurus" who were up-selling and taking advantage of exhausted parents. I'm not sure I can say that is the case anymore.
It seems extortionary to me and I'm honestly a little bummed that they have succumbed to this business model.
Same. This is the first I've heard of PLS's club and I'm disappointed. I understand that $10 for a book isnt a lucrative business model. But $350 for 4 weeks of support? Yikes! One of the reasons I have loved PLS is because they were different from other "parenting gurus" who were up-selling and taking advantage of exhausted parents. I'm not sure I can say that is the case anymore.
@bunsofaluminum Totally agree. PLS gave me the guts to do a CIO form of sleep training and I credit it for basically saving all of our sanity. That said, this really is taking advantage of sleep deprived parents. Now that I'm out of that tired fog (at which point, I would have probably paid any price for anything that purported to help), this seems totally ludicrous for what they are offering.
joelelangovan
New member
@nickseand How old is your baby?
What have you tried so far?
I would imagine you could spend that or less hiring a sleep consultant. Though I’ve never priced one out, so I could be completely wrong. But beware of people trying to capitalize on your struggle. I’m assuming you’re struggling with your child’s sleep and that’s why you’re considering joining.
I think $350 is expensive for that kind of support. I suggest joining this group first.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/respectfulsleeplearning/?ref=share
It’s free, there is still the community aspect and LOTS of support for sleep training at all ages. Sleep is tricky and can lead to a lot of stress for us moms. But, personally, I would try a lot before paying $350.
Edited to add: the group above is not the PLS specific group. This group isn’t tied to any particular sleep training curriculum. Has a lot of information on sleep training and gives you a lot of choices and options and is FREE.
What have you tried so far?
I would imagine you could spend that or less hiring a sleep consultant. Though I’ve never priced one out, so I could be completely wrong. But beware of people trying to capitalize on your struggle. I’m assuming you’re struggling with your child’s sleep and that’s why you’re considering joining.
I think $350 is expensive for that kind of support. I suggest joining this group first.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/respectfulsleeplearning/?ref=share
It’s free, there is still the community aspect and LOTS of support for sleep training at all ages. Sleep is tricky and can lead to a lot of stress for us moms. But, personally, I would try a lot before paying $350.
Edited to add: the group above is not the PLS specific group. This group isn’t tied to any particular sleep training curriculum. Has a lot of information on sleep training and gives you a lot of choices and options and is FREE.
@shadaya
Hi there- same response as above but pasting here as well! Thanks for your help and insight... I also belong to that group. sounds the the concenus is that the sleep club isnt worth it.
I have posted on some other chains so you may have seen some of my issues before...
Baby is 11 weeks, 12 on 2/6. My biggest issues are figuring out how many naps to offer, when to call "bed time", and wake windows. Babies natural bedtime seems to be about 10PM, with a consistent wake time of 8AM. On a good night shes up once around 4AM to feed. This i great right? But she is a MESS from 7-10, so i feel like I should be moving bedtime earlier. If we aim for 10, I try to get a micro nap in around 8, leaving 1.5 hours before bedtime. Really it seems like no matter what we do, bedtime is a battle. If we aim for 8, shes down at 9. If we aim for 10, shes down between 11-midnight. Sometimes shes up 4 hours between last nap and bedtime.
Naps range from 30 mins- 2 hours ( just started capping at 2 hours). With capping daytime sleep, I thought I could just get her 5 naps in, and bedtime swing based on that... but last night we got her 5 naps in, had 2 hour wake time before trying a 9PM bedtime... only to go down at 10 and sleep 6 hours. Saturday we were out most of the day so she got 6 short naps... we aimed for an 8PM bedtime, ended up going down at 9PM and slept 6, then 4 hours. Great right? But probbaly just because she was so stimulated all day.
Wake times range anywhere from 1 hour (before first nap) then 1 hour 15 mins, 1.5, then about 1.5 to 2 before bed. We are on 5-6 naps a day.
I just feel so confused on some of the basics of figuring out bedtime, when to wake from a nap vs leave sleeping, when to stretch wake windows, drop a nap... I really like to just follow her cues during the day and really I am pretty good at that, she goes down super easily or naps, I am just SO confused come night time, and wondering what I should be chaning as she gets older.
One of the larger things I cant figure out... I get capping a nap to preserve bedtime. But lets say baby needs 1.5 hours before bedtime, bedtime is 8PM but baby naturally wakes at 5:30 from last nap... do you strech to 2 hours to get to bedtime, knowing there isnt room in there for another nap?
@nickseand I’m definitely no expert. To me it sounds like you are doing a great job! My LO is 11 weeks tomorrow and every day feels like a puzzle where if I could just get all the pieces in the right place the result will be a perfect baby with a perfect sleep schedule. Lol, but it never really works.
My question is was there ever a time when she did well going down?
• My LO didn’t do well with super long WWs and he has a low total wake time. Everything says he shouldn’t sleep as much as he does, but when I tried to stretch wake windows, he was having much more trouble with naps and bedtime. He’d have false starts and so much more fighting bedtime. And he would wake up after 20 minutes crying. So now, I put him down after 1 hour and 5 minutes for pretty much every sleep attempt. Bedtime I sometimes try 1 hour and 10 minutes, but if I stretch the last WW as much as I’m told I should, he’s overtired and much harder to get down.
He can sometimes sleep 6 hours in a day. Everything says he should only sleep 5 hours. & because of that we’re not getting 12 hour stretches at night, but I’ve accepted he’s just not there yet.
•my son will sleep independently in his crib for 6-7 hour stretches and then wakes for a feed. Before going back to sleep for another 3 to 4 hour stretch as well. His “core” is 11-6 or 12-7. No matter what I do, that’s when he prefers to sleep. I’ve accepted it. For me, sleeping from 12-7 is good enough. If I need more sleep I put my husband on baby duty after 10 pm. LO is around 12lbs (so not big) and I just trust that his body still needs more nutrition. Even if he goes down at 9 he will wake up at 11 for that last feed. Then sleep his long stretch. He doesn’t have an 8 or 9 pm bedtime yet. But he usually goes down easy and is asleep within 5 minutes of being put down. Full disclosure we do use a pacifier occasionally which most ST methods don’t support. He’s learning to suck his fingers so we plan to drop the paci completely when he figures out self soothing by sucking his thumb consistently.
For me, I decided what was more important to me was that when I put him down he would fall asleep independently with minimal crying. So I try to be flexible on the hours he sleeps.
•If there was a time that things were going well, I would try to recreate that. I also noticed that when my in-laws visited he slept better that night. Probably because they were talking to him, reading to him, singing to him much more than I can by myself. So I agree with the stimulation leading to better sleep. Maybe keep trying to find ways to make sure your LO is getting more stimulation.
At the end of the day, I remind myself these are really young humans we’re working with so, things aren’t going to be perfect. My husband thinks I’m over-complicating my life but I know the routine helps the LO. BUT I have accepted things won’t be perfect and spending more money, or trying more things, reading more books etc won’t change the nature of my baby. but again, sounds like you’re doing a great job. And building a great foundation.
You seem to know the rules and methods and are implementing them well.
To address your main reason for posting: At this point, if you still want and need more help or to perfect your schedule, I would think one on one consultation would be more helpful than another group setting. Though I don’t know the price of that.
I’m always happy to be here to commiserate. Seems like our LOs are close in age.
Edited to add: have you tried having a little shorter wake window before bed? That’s the only thing I can think of you doing differently.
My question is was there ever a time when she did well going down?
• My LO didn’t do well with super long WWs and he has a low total wake time. Everything says he shouldn’t sleep as much as he does, but when I tried to stretch wake windows, he was having much more trouble with naps and bedtime. He’d have false starts and so much more fighting bedtime. And he would wake up after 20 minutes crying. So now, I put him down after 1 hour and 5 minutes for pretty much every sleep attempt. Bedtime I sometimes try 1 hour and 10 minutes, but if I stretch the last WW as much as I’m told I should, he’s overtired and much harder to get down.
He can sometimes sleep 6 hours in a day. Everything says he should only sleep 5 hours. & because of that we’re not getting 12 hour stretches at night, but I’ve accepted he’s just not there yet.
•my son will sleep independently in his crib for 6-7 hour stretches and then wakes for a feed. Before going back to sleep for another 3 to 4 hour stretch as well. His “core” is 11-6 or 12-7. No matter what I do, that’s when he prefers to sleep. I’ve accepted it. For me, sleeping from 12-7 is good enough. If I need more sleep I put my husband on baby duty after 10 pm. LO is around 12lbs (so not big) and I just trust that his body still needs more nutrition. Even if he goes down at 9 he will wake up at 11 for that last feed. Then sleep his long stretch. He doesn’t have an 8 or 9 pm bedtime yet. But he usually goes down easy and is asleep within 5 minutes of being put down. Full disclosure we do use a pacifier occasionally which most ST methods don’t support. He’s learning to suck his fingers so we plan to drop the paci completely when he figures out self soothing by sucking his thumb consistently.
For me, I decided what was more important to me was that when I put him down he would fall asleep independently with minimal crying. So I try to be flexible on the hours he sleeps.
•If there was a time that things were going well, I would try to recreate that. I also noticed that when my in-laws visited he slept better that night. Probably because they were talking to him, reading to him, singing to him much more than I can by myself. So I agree with the stimulation leading to better sleep. Maybe keep trying to find ways to make sure your LO is getting more stimulation.
At the end of the day, I remind myself these are really young humans we’re working with so, things aren’t going to be perfect. My husband thinks I’m over-complicating my life but I know the routine helps the LO. BUT I have accepted things won’t be perfect and spending more money, or trying more things, reading more books etc won’t change the nature of my baby. but again, sounds like you’re doing a great job. And building a great foundation.
You seem to know the rules and methods and are implementing them well.
To address your main reason for posting: At this point, if you still want and need more help or to perfect your schedule, I would think one on one consultation would be more helpful than another group setting. Though I don’t know the price of that.
I’m always happy to be here to commiserate. Seems like our LOs are close in age.
Edited to add: have you tried having a little shorter wake window before bed? That’s the only thing I can think of you doing differently.
tradingfocus1
New member
wallstreet012
New member
katrina2017
New member
@nickseand I’m part of the Facebook group. I think they started this because there is so much activity in the Facebook group they can’t keep up with it. I think it’s a cool idea but for that price tag….I think it’s too steep. You could hire a dedicated sleep consultant for the same money.
lovedajesus
New member
@katrina2017 What is the facebook group called? I could only find something like a personal page for the author.
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