My toddler doesn’t sleep well - he fell asleep tonight at 11pm and I feel so bad :(

[paker]

He’s never been a good sleeper. Lately it takes us upwards of 4+ to get him ready for bed after eating dinner. Why? Because he struggles immensely with transitions and requires at least two five minute timers between each transition or he will scream bloody murder for 30 minutes so we have just dealt with the long transitions. In addition he is extremely demanding and has very specific asks throughout the night to get to bed time and saying no or forgetting to ask him if he wants xyz will also result in the 30 minute meltdown. I just find it extremely ridiculous that the lead up to bed time takes 4 hours or longer.

For example, this is what a typical night looks like for us:

• 5:30-6:30 eat dinner (includes the time it takes to convince him to come to the dinner table from his previous activity)
• 6:30-7 dessert (he will most likely demand an ice cream or cookies and milk while watching his iPad)
• 7-7:30 bath
• 7:30-8 wind down and play
• 8-8:15 dress for bed and vitamins
• 8:15-8:30 brush teeth and iPad
• 8:30-8:45 snack (cheese stick or glass of milk)
• 8:45-9:15 read books
• 9:15-9:30 sleep

Or in today’s case, he literally sat in bed and quietly talked to himself and fidgeted and played until 11pm before I finally snapped at him and told him to go to bed which is when he finally shut his eyes and went to bed.

And when he does sleep he wakes every few hours. Sometimes he screams and cries and kicks the covers and it takes a while to calm him down. Sometimes he sits up in bed confused and dazed and I have to remind him to put his head on the pillow. Either way he is NOT sleeping through the night.

He still wakes up super early no matter how late he goes down and we can’t physically seem to make him go to bed any earlier than 9:30pm. He has a 1 hour nap during the day. I just feel like he’s not getting enough sleep and he’s sleep deprived. Like he’s moody during the day and doesn’t listen well which I feel like are signs he’s not getting enough sleep or good quality sleep but he is a monster to get down no matter what routine we have.

I’m just so tired and frustrated. What can I do to shorten his bedtime routine? I need more time to myself in the evenings. Ideally I would love for him to go down at 8:30 or even 9:30 as scheduled but as of late he is just going down later and later closer to 11pm and still waking up at 7.

Helppppppppp me

 

[livingformhim16]

@paker I would recommend changing your routine... Cut out all iPad time after dinner. Do play time before bath. Small dessert with dinner instead of it's own thing. No snack is necessary if it doesn't take so long to get to bed.

Kids often sleep poorly/wake up too early when they're overtired.

Bedtime routine chart would probably help him.

 

[mendiolalubmark143]

@paker Maybe it's just me but this nighttime routine is waaaay too complicated and you're letting your toddler run the show. Keep it simple and stay strong in your boundaries. If he struggles with transitions cut down on how many transitions you are doing. You have like 5 transitions in a 4 hour window. Toddlers know how to get their way and if he throws a tantrum and gets what he wants he's going to keep doing it (speaking from experience).

Might be a good idea to switch doing vitamins in the morning. They can be energizing.

You are in charge and need to set boundaries even if they throw a tantrum. Make it clear you understand they're upset, offer comfort, but maybe he just needs to cry it out to realize he's not getting his way via tantrums anymore.

Also, I would cut out the iPad before bed. If you can't, consider turning the blue light filter up to maximum. What's he doing\watching on his iPad? It's probably causing over stimulation. I know that's what happens with my kids.

What I do (single dad, 2 lo's under 5): dinner/desert then straight into bath and brush teeth, then pjs and they get to do quiet play to digest, then they get to pick out a couple books, then we read the books while they have a glass if water or oat milk, after stories it's a quick pee then lights out and ill lay with them for a bit till they fall asleep. If they take too long to complete any transitions they lose out on reading, or play time. I don't know. I have no idea what I'm doing sometimes but I've worked hard to set boundaries and make sure they know I'm the one calling the shots. They get leeway elsewhere to self-direct and be independent, but not when it comes to the bedtime routine.

Lastly, don't beat yourself up. You can do this.

 

[ekennovative]

@mendiolalubmark143 This sounds pretty much like our bedtime routine. Our kid also struggles with transitions, so yes, we have to minimise them! Reducing screen time has helped immensely too.

 

[baxter006]

@mendiolalubmark143 If he is insistent on vitamins at night because of routine you could give him something different that looks similar to his vitamins like one single fruit snack. Empty a few fruit snack pouches into an empty vitamin bottle to keep up the routine. Then give regular vitamins in the morning.

I have also found that kids like to feel like they are in control. Try some of the tricks to make him feel in control while still doing what you want him to do.

Would you like to wear the blue coat or a red coat? Instead of forcing him to wear a coat his options do not include NOt and wearing a coat.

Would you like to use the blue plate or green plate for dinner? Would you like your drink in a red cup or yellow cup?

Would you like to bathe in the upstairs bathroom or downstairs bathroom for your bath?

Do you want to wear the black shoes or blue shoes for our walk?

Do you want to use this blanket or that blanket for bed? Maybe we can use the other one for nap!

Which friends (toys) would you like to bring with us to the store?

Do you want to wear this outfit or that outfit for our trip to the store?

Even though these choices don’t seem like much they will make him feel more in control of his life and trust me when I say this method works well in teen years too. Though it is made a little more complex over the years it’s still useful to make them feel they have choices, but you still get the desired result with less fight.

 

[missy2710]

@paker My guess is too much screen time and sugar in the evenings. Probably give a smaller portion of something sweet with dinner, and do an earlier bed time snack. Also is he napping too much in the day? Cap it at under two hours

 

[james_1991]

@paker Another vote to start saying no. Frequently. Kindly, but frequently. No more iPad. No more snack. No (or very few) sugary foods throughout the day. Unlimited access to fruit and veggies and water or whatever.

IMO meltdown 1 = bedtime. He’s exhausted his emotional capacity for the day and if he’s eaten then it’s sleep and brain recharge time.

This is like weaning all over again. A few really hard days to reset routines might be needed.

 

[ramonguitar]

@james_1991 I think that’s the key. They’re letting the toddler control bedtime. They need to set boundaries and say no to iPads, snacks and stalling.

 

[juju123]

@james_1991 Say no but not the word no, find other ways to say it. Saying the word no too much can cause it’s own issues (ODD is a fun one..).

 

[james_1991]

@juju123 Oooo good point!!! Yes. Redirecting, distracting, questions etc are all much better ways.

 

[micallef91]

@paker "For example, this is what a typical night looks like for us:

• 5:30-6:30 eat dinner (includes the time it takes to convince him to come to the dinner table from his previous activity)
• 6:30-7 dessert (he will most likely demand an ice cream or cookies and milk while watching his iPad)
• 7-7:30 bath
• 7:30-8 wind down and play
• 8-8:15 dress for bed and vitamins
• 8:15-8:30 brush teeth and iPad
• 8:30-8:45 snack (cheese stick or glass of milk)
• 8:45-9:15 read books
• 9:15-9:30 sleep"

Dinner should not take 1 hour, plus a 30 min dessert. We cannot expect toddlers to sit for 1.5 hours to just eat. I have school aged children who get 15 minute lunch times. Our dinners are never more than a 30 minute sit down.

I understand, the struggle it takes to get your kid to the table, but if our kids did not come to the table we let them know they have to go to their room until they are ready (and no play in their room). A few times of this should reduce your dinner/dessert time.

When my kiddos were at the toddler age, we had yogurt as dessert. We called it ice cream, and they did not know any better. We do not use dessert on a regular basis, but I would switch to a less sugary alternative.

Do your story time with a snack first. Let toddler know, this is for their own good. Explain to them that brushing teeth will help bacteria or germs go away. Eating after brushing causes bacteria.

Transitioning your toddler to a new routine will take time. Your child may rebel, stay strong. Also, start at 30 min increments. Cut down where you can. Today was 11pm sleep, make tomorrow 1030. In a couple of days it will be 10 pm. Keep reducing until you get the bed time you want.

I strongly agree with other comments that screen time will make things difficult. I would limit this. I would save screen time for day use only. If you use it to buy yourself extra time, find a better way.

I am not judging, I am speaking from a series of trial and error as a parent to kids who have challenged me at dinner time, bet time, etc. Hang in there, it will get better!

 

[katrina2017]

@paker There are way too many transitions here- no wonder he is melting down. If he’s having dessert with dinner he doesn’t need another snack (after brushing teeth?!).

After dinner, you could have him play quietly for a few, then bath and brushing teeth. It should not be taking an hour and a half to give a bath, brush teeth, and get into pajamas. That can take 30 minutes max. No iPad. Read one or two books, lights out, that’s it. There’s way too much going on in this schedule, it’s too complicated and no wonder he’s having a hard time.

Also- waking up at 7am is not super early for a toddler. Both of my kids have woken up around 6am their whole lives. You just get up with them, that’s how it is.

 

[bless22]

@paker Change and shorten routine. Many good suggestions already. If not already mentioned, do vitamins in the morn instead of the evening as some are "brain activating" and he may be too wired to settle.

 

[gellmannamnesia]

@paker I feel so sorry for you having such a struggle. If you can manage I would absolutely recommend no more screen time after dinner (this includes no iPad dessert). Switch to a low sugar dessert to take away from the energy spike. Once the teeth are brushed there’s only water and no more snacks.

If you haven’t yet, get a sleep trainer clock. Once the clock turns colour it’s quiet time and bedtime.

Are your wake windows during the day age appropriate? Does your kid get enough outside time every day? Like going for a walk once a day?

 

[paker]

@gellmannamnesia Thank you! Sweets/sugars is another whole issue we are trying to deal with. So the dessert after dinner is a way to mitigate him snacking on sweets all day long. He will ask constantly for lollipops, cookies, ice cream, juice, popsicles, candy, etc.

Since we implemented “one sweet dessert after dinner” it has helped a lot to cut down on his asks during the day so I’m not sure if we can give this one up unless you have a different idea! I am all ears! Otherwise we are filling his sweet tooth with lots of fruit, he loves his fruit.

We’ve also tried giving up the snack after brushing teeth but he always whines that he’s hungry, and while it probably is a bedtime delay tactic I don’t have it in me to deny him a snack if he’s claiming he is very hungry. So we’ve limited it to two options, cheese stick or glass of milk.

And yes he gets out a lot! Sometimes he is at the splash pad or swimming for 1-2 hours before dinner and he still cannot go down early

I will look into the clock, thank you!

 

[gellmannamnesia]

@paker It’s so hard isn’t it! Can you switch the one dessert a day to lunchtime instead? Also not having juice and other yummy food home makes it a lot easier to eliminate it. I hate to not have yummy food for myself but my toddler eats all the same and is a sweet tooth too you are already doing such a good job as a parent!!

I love our clock, I bought the cheapest one because I didn’t think it would work but it’s so great because it’s the clock deciding it’s time for bed and to stay in bed or at least be quiet in the morning too

 

[bartretgtichele]

@paker If he’s not hungry before brushing his teeth then 2 minutes later he shouldn’t be - it’s SO bad to have milk at night and not brush teeth afterwards! He’s going to have cavities from this because the sugars in the milk eat at the teeth. You have some great advice in this thread but my biggest thing is no more food after teeth brushing! If you know he’s hungry before bed each night then give him milk/cheese before you brush!

 

[harmur]

@bartretgtichele

If you know he’s hungry before bed each night then give him milk/cheese before you brush!

And, if it is a delay tactic (which it definitely is) you've removed that option. You've already given him a snack. So, snack, brush, "I need food", "nope, you just ate", redirect towards the goal.

 

[mendiolalubmark143]

@paker I forgot to mention I bought smart lightbulbs for our whole house. They automatically get dimmer and more orange as the night goes on so by the time bedtime rolls around the lights are about as bright as candles. I think this has really helped provide a visual cue that it's bedtime and also helps them (and me) naturally get ready for sleep.

 

[hurdygurdyman]

@paker He’s having dinner, dessert, and a snack all within a 3 hour period. Can you cut out the snack? Or maybe have him drink his milk while you read instead of making milk drinking time it’s own 15 minute thing? How many books are you reading for story time to last 30 minutes? We have a one book before bedtime rule at my house. We read books at lunchtime and before nap time as well, so we are still reading plenty throughout the day. I would put my foot down about the iPad after dinner. No screens in the 3 hours before bedtime, because that makes it harder to fall asleep. And if he’s not doing iPad time, maybe you can also skip dessert? Or if you want him to have it, do it after lunch or during dinner. And I would shorten the wind down and play time to 15-20 minutes and put it before the bath, as the bath will make him sleepy and you want to use that momentum to get him to sleep. Also, what he does in his bed is his business. As long as he’s in bed and isn’t up playing with toys, don’t worry about it. Just have your evening alone time or go to sleep yourself and let him be. When he wakes up at night, how long are you giving him before going into his room? I’d give him 10-15 minutes to see if he could fall back asleep on his own. I would say that him sitting up dazed in his bed is not really a problem worth going in for. He’ll eventually lay back down. It does sound like he’s really overtired. Overtired children wake up often at night, and children who go to bed lay will often wake up early. This is the schedule I would follow, and I would be VERY strict about following it exactly until it stopped being a struggle:

5:30-6:30 eat dinner

6:30-6:50 wind down and play

6:50-7:20 bath

7:20-7:30 brush teeth (NO IPAD), put on pajamas, take vitamin

7:30-7:45 read ONE book

7:45-8:00 quiet cuddle time in the dark with mom and dad to wind down

7:45 kiddo in bed, mom and dad leave the room

I would make a chart with pictures of the bedtime routine so he could see exactly what was going to happen and the order it was going to happen in. Let him be really involved- “Okay, let’s go look at the chart! We just brushed teeth. What happens next?”

You might also consider a light weighted blanket and a sound machine if you aren’t already using those. I think they help kids fall asleep easier and stay asleep longer. Do you have blackout curtains in his room? If not, it might be worth a shot to keep the sunlight out of his room in the morning.