Looking for alternatives to the children's dance industrial complex

[servant10]

@apor2017 Other people have commented something similar but highly recommend looking for non-competitive dance lessons locally.

I did dance for 13 years - ranging from tap, jazz, ballet, and pointe. All were non-competitive. Lessons were at a local school (in a cafeteria) and we had one recital a year. The costumes were expensive… but it helped to only have one recital a year. Some kids went all out for recitals with fancy hair and makeup, while others kept it simple with something like lip gloss. I honestly liked the recitals because it was something we worked towards every year. Although I learned a lot of body negativity from my parents, dance was not a place I learned these from.

I think it’s possible to find something that would be the right fit your child! I’d be happy if my kids weren’t interested in dance, but I want them to be active in a way they enjoy… so I’m not ruling it out completely.

Some unsolicited advice (skip if you don’t want to hear this) - consider what is so off putting to you about makeup. I would argue it isn’t inherently bad. In fact, some exposure that is low-pressure and “fun” is likely better than a strict no-makeup policy. I say this because giving extra attention to something like makeup by it being off-limits may make your child MORE interested in it. Like anything you want to have boundaries around, talking through things and exploring them with your child directly may be most effective (why people wear makeup, how some makeup feels itchy or uncomfortable on your skin, how it can be fun to play with colors or self-expression, etc.).

 

[luther27]

@servant10 Agree on all fronts! I think shows like Dance Moms have given youth dance a bad rap. Yes, that subculture exists within dance, but in my experience it's not the norm. Dance is like sports, there are lots of ways to participate.

 

[sarahsknight]

@servant10 I think this is a good point on the makeup, as teaching kids about stage makeup in the performing arts is a bit different from teaching them about everyday makeup application.

However, if the studio has that kind of “dance mom” culture that’s sort of beauty-pageant adjacent, then the child is going to hear and see all the other parents’ values about physical appearance in action every time they go to class, perform, and socialize with their dance class friends. I can understand how OP might prefer to keep their 4yo away from all of that right now. It’s tough to protect kids against internalizing harmful messages about women’s bodies, especially little ones.

 

[servant10]

@sarahsknight Totally agree re: physical appearance concerns. I wouldn’t want my child exposed to those messages either! I focused on makeup specifically in my reply because that is what OP noted in their list.

 

[kagenonikki]

@servant10 I disagree with what you've said about make up here. I think it is inherently bad to put make up on a child for any reason. Stage make-up exists for the same reason all make-up does, to enforce arbitrary beauty standards on women exclusively. Putting red lipstick on a five-year-old for a dance recital may be harmless, or it may not be. It might be the first time you're sending a message to that child that the natural color of her lips is not beautiful.

I say this as an adult aging woman who would prefer to never wear make up, very few women actually make a "choice" about make up, it's made for them in our society. I actually don't have a daughter, I have a son, and even though he is a toddler I can already tell you if he participated in any kind of performance or exhibition of skill no one is going to ask me to buy him lipstick, and I think that should be true for female children as well.

 

[sisterfriend]

@kagenonikki I mean true stage makeup is so that people don’t look like blurred out faces from far away on stage. It’s comical and weird looking and done well it should not be a reinforcement of beauty standards but an outline/enlargement of facial features so that they can be seen from far away.

At least that’s what my non-recital, strictly ballet only upbringing taught me. It also showed me that makeup was super annoying to take off and more of a hassle than it’s worth so I don’t wear makeup in my adult life.

The dudes also wore makeup (but true, the lipstick was not as bright as red).

 

[javier_is_life]

@kagenonikki The stage makeup you wear for dance is mainly so people can see your face on stage. If you've ever seen someone on stage WITHOUT the over-the-top stage makeup, you'd know what I mean. Without it, the face is almost featureless - you can't see the lips or eyes well at all, especially from far away or if spotlighted, so facial expressions one may be making get pretty lost.

And yes, the boys at the dance studio I went to also wore makeup for the recitals.

 

[jaslerfischer]

@apor2017 Try some other options. My daughter took a ballet class at 4 that was exactly what you described looking for. There was a dance recital in the spring and we just didn’t sign her up and it was no big deal. Now she takes a ballet class at the community center. In my area there are plenty of options that don’t go down the expensive dance as a career path.

 

[011235813]

@apor2017 Are there any basic local parks and recreation ballet or dance classes? In my experience they're not as hardcore...

 

[mananon]

@apor2017 It took me a bit and a further drive than I wanted, but I found a low key class that lets the littles dress as they wish, fees are affordable and recitals are optional but encouraged (and those fees are reasonable too). I found it through a parent at my MDO program. Otherwise I couldn't stomach the competitive culture I see in some dance studios.

There's also dance schools around here, similar to Isadora Duncan that was mentioned elsewhere, that are movement and dance classes that aren't so rigid as well.

 

[lidalulu]

@apor2017 Our daughter is in a non profit dance studio whose mission is to make dance accessible and chill. If you are in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, I can drop the studio website.

 

[sarahsknight]

@apor2017 I have no real experience, but I like the idea of having a local teenager or college student who dances act as a one-on-one ballet tutor for your child. If you happen to be near a local college or university that has a dance program, maybe reach out to them and ask for recommendations? Maybe there’s an undergrad dance major looking for part-time work who would be interested, particularly if they intend to become a dance teacher in the future. Or maybe they can recommend local community classes.

If you are ever able to make room in your budget for dance, then I would maybe look for a studio where they only teach ballet, rather than a general dance studio where they teach lots of different styles, since many of those do have the competition teams that are very r/dancemoms. You may be able to find an old-school ballet studio where they’re more strict about keeping their outfits and makeup age-appropriate (you know, like those ones where kids would get demerits for wearing makeup to dance class or whatever).

 

[christianauger]

@apor2017 So just to broaden the spectrum, unfortunately, all competitive activities are like this. One of my BFF's children is in travel soccer. The amount of money, time, and constant "training" he does is crazy. That is their life pretty much. I've never hassled her for her choices, I just won't put my children through that. It leads to too many problems in my view. From eating disorders to body image issues, at the competitive level. Now for the rec level(funsies), things are a tad different. You are still held to a standard and expected to try, however, the environment and parents are so tolerable. You will have a few competitive children who are playing rec in their off-season, and some, not all of those parents are still shitty.
As a parent who has tried rec activities, unless you and your child are ready for some commitment and financially ready to give, just do stuff at home. It's more about the memories you can make and not about learning to compete.
Some of my best memories with my children are dancing silly around the living room or playing catch in the yard. If she seems persistent in wanting to learn try it for a season. If it seems too much, then quit.
As for make-up, my daughter is 8 years old. She started at a very young age liking make-up and wanting to try it. She watched me doing it for various events. So at around 6 I finally bought her a child's makeup kit. She loved it. It was barely there makeup and let her explore her interest. Now at 8, I let her wear some light eyeshadow for picture day. I never let her do crazy makeup styles. She has worn it in public. It has allowed her to safely explore and I still have a bit of control. I'm not telling you you have to let your daughter wear makeup. All I'm saying is to allow her enough freedom to explore her interests. In the long run, it will help her feel safe enough to be open with you. Because she trusts that you will see her as a human, with thoughts feelings, and emotions, and not as something meant to control. It will also show her she doesn't have to sneak around to try things.
Good luck and much love!

Edited: for grammar issues

 

[forreal]

@apor2017 Cackling at the title. I’ve never thought about it that way but it’s so true. Maybe there’s something at a YMCA or rec center near you that requires a little less than more formal studios do?

 

[seekingtohopefullyfind]

@apor2017 Your mileage may vary, but try looking for smaller studios in smaller towns.

We've been incredibly fortunate to find a place for our 4 year old that is affordable, inclusive of all body types, and offers non-competition classes that focus on basics and having fun. Part of the reason it exists is because we're in a community where the studio couldn't stay open otherwise.

As for the makeup, I get it. At 4, the expectation for recitals is a little bit of powder with natural shades of blush so that the stage lights don't wash the kids out. It's not the weekly expectation at all.

All of that said, there are some wonderful and fun YouTube ballet classes, and a leotard+tutu and ballet flats from Walmart or Target could completely fulfill your girl's ballet dreams.

 

[williejdyson]

@apor2017 I've been wanting to make a thread just like this. I would love for my (3 y.o.) daughter to start learning foundational movement skills in the next year or so, but I'm put off by the type of dance culture you describe. I know gymnastics is an obvious answer but I'm also leery of aspects of gymnastics, although those elements are probably not much in evidence in casual classes for preschoolers. I was also thinking about Capoeira or another martial art. But after reading this thread I may try to start with a rec center general dance class.

 

[ukdeedpoll]

@apor2017 We are in a town with several larger dance mom type programs. I found a small local studio with rave reviews where the director emphasizes age appropriate modest dress, classes and music. My daughter loves it and it's exactly the right mixture of fun and learning. They get a story and to wear tiaras and when they do their stretches they pretend it's spiders jumping around different parts of their bodies. Recitals are optional and the older girls student teach with the little girls which my daughter loves. I grew up doing several years of modern dance with a local hippy. Dance can be many different things so if it's something your kid wants to explore I wouldn't avoid it because of the fear of something that's likely avoidable or mitigatable.

 

[viesel]

@apor2017 I am going to enroll my son in dance at our local Y. He loves to boogey and I think it’ll be fun and low pressure. I’ve talked to other local moms and they say it’s pretty chill, not structured at the pre school level and no uniforms/outfits/makeup. I would just avoid any where that wants to do competitions. I did competitive cheer as a little kid/middle schooler… yeah I would not subject my kid to BS like that.

 

[nancyc]

@apor2017 My husband and I also have decided that my daughter will not do dance. I did it all throughout elementary and the beginning of middle school. It very quickly can take over. It started as ballet then tap then jazz then lyrical then hip hop then competitive dance. Soon, I was spending three nights a week at the dance studio and couldn’t do other activities because I was so busy with dance. The crazy thing is that I was never a good dancer . The studios will just take your money and pressure your kid into more classes.

Also, bullying and disordered eating was very common. Some nights, we would all eat dinner at the studio, and that is not an environment I want my daughter in. Hopefully it’s changed since then, but there are sooooo many other activities that I feel comfortable saying no to that one.

 

[rosiebrown48]

@apor2017 Ok I just need to get this out first:

Stage makeup is necessary for performance. It is meant to accentuate what stage lights wash out. My kid looks like a toddlers and tiaras contestant at the stage door, but looks normal on stage. Our director is very picky and has instructed me to do less and to use a softer lip color.

I share a lot of the same issues with you about children's dance. Competitive dance for children seems like an icky industry, so I've never been drawn to it. The students who attend the competition schools don't have really good ballet technique, and that's not what I wanted. Plus you get into the expense, toll long competitions take on everyone and very questionable costuming, and I can see why you feel the way you do.

Find a ballet school. Not a school that teaches 15 minutes of ballet with some tap, but a ballet school. They are run very differently and focus just on ballet. There are ballet competitions, but only the pre-professional kids compete at our school.

When I was looking for ballet schools, my first priority was safety after being instructed by teachers who left their career to have back surgery in their 20's. It was just luck that the school that was closest to me is owned by a teacher who left their professional career and got a degree in kinesiology before opening their studio. Once I learned about their commitment to diversity and inclusion, I was sold. Her tuition is not cheap, but when I look at the competitive school prices, it's significantly less.

Some things I've learned along the way to help evaluate:
- studio cleanliness: dirty dance floors are dangerous. If you see the same cobwebs all nutcracker season, it's not a good sign
- maturity: if you can, observe the way their teenagers act. Are they kind, disciplined and respectful, or are they telling how Santa isn't real in front of the baby ballerinas? It tells you a lot about what the culture is like.
- studio owner reputation: the ballet world is so small, so ask around if you have that network (or even just ask your local dance store). People are messy and they will talk if there's a problem. If no one has even heard of them, that's really weird.