I am at my wits end with my daughter’s (16f) sleep schedule. Any advice, kind words and virtual hugs accepted

[k3at]

Ever since the pandemic and the kids going to virtual school, my daughter (16f) has had an absolutely terrible sleep schedule. At its worst, she would go two days without sleeping. Sometimes she wouldn’t even go to bed til 11am or later. It’s gotten a little better since returning to in person school last year, but still she misses at LEAST a day of school a week and at LEAST a day where she goes in late a week. We are at the point where her going to bed at 3am would be a godsend. Every morning I feel like I am abusing my child sending her to school on 2-3 hours of sleep and it has affected every area of her life. Her grades and her mental health are in the toilet. I wake up and my first feeling is immense anxiety over wondering what time she went to bed. This morning, I got up at 7 to wake her up for school and she still hadn’t even been to bed yet.

But here is the thing; she has tried NOTHING to help her situation. We have been to therapists and specialists and she takes everything they tell her to do and immediately shuts it down because she doesn’t think it will help. A psychiatrist put her on Zoloft last year (she has severe anxiety and OCD) but after 6 months, we saw hardly any effects so she stopped and now she is totally anti-medication. But her attitude towards absolutely any solution is garbage and I want to pull my hair o. I’ve been noticing that even her doctors sound frustrated with her due to her lack of cooperation. We are at the point now where we are talking about pulling her out of school, which would suck because you have to audition to get into this school and she worked really hard to get in.

I want to put her on medication again. Even if its just a sleep aid. I want to give her an ultimatum that if she doesn’t put forth any effort, we are going to pull her out of school. She had high hopes of getting into her dream school but now that’s gone due to her grades and I don’t want her to ruin further any chance she has to get into any good school.

What would you do? Have you ever put your teen on a sleep aid other than melatonin (it doesn’t work for her)? Any advice is welcome. Thank you for reading!

 

[stevej66]

@k3at What is she staying up doing? Can you turn off the wifi/internet in the house and block her cell phone from having any access after 10PM? Can you take her computer and phone after 10PM and lock it until the morning? It seems draconian but unless she has nothing better to do than sleep she will just avoid it

 

[marthasimons]

@stevej66 For my daughter, the phone stays in the kitchen overnight and all of our tablets are charging in the office. She's not old enough to have emergency 3AM phone calls! I cannot make someone sleep, but I can remove all of the "fun" alternatives. She might grab a book or pick up a knitting project if she's really not tired at "bed time" ... but neither seem to keep her up the way the telly or Internet do.

 

[k3at]

@stevej66 It’s not a bad idea. Something has to be put in place to hopefully motivate her to try and change and do the work

 

[stevej66]

@k3at I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this overall.
What happens when you sit your daughter down and talk to her (like an adult)? She’s 16 so it would be useful to understand why she stays up, if she’s at all concerned with missing school and getting kicked out, ASKING HER HOW SHE THINKS SHE SHOULD SOLVE IT, etc.
This is a huge behavioral issue and I wonder if anything has happened at home recently that’s causing this.

 

[katrina2017]

@k3at I think she might be overwhelmed and depressed. Have her see therapist and perhaps if there is a person she listens to suggest her write all her tasks on posted notes. Helps when kids are overwhelmed

 

[k3at]

@katrina2017 Yes she is very depressed. And staying up all night alone in the dark for hours isn’t helping. It’s a vicious circle

 

[godislove32]

@k3at It’s absolutely a cycle. With two teen girlies and as someone who has huge problems around sleep myself, I have all the sympathy.

A couple thoughts:

1– BLUE light is like, the worst thing for sleep and rest. Many recommend turning off all phones/tv’s and computers 1-2 hours before even trying to go to bed.

It may be useful to remind yourself is that she’s still very much a child who cannot be expected to consistently make safe choices for herself yet. If you’re of a certain generation, there’s a chance that you were kind of…let loose to raise yourself after say age 10. I know for me I was watching other kids, making dinners, and managing adult issues by ten. What I’ve noticed with my own kids is how “young” they still are. Part of me grieves for what I didn’t get as a teen when I see how much they still need. Which leads me to…

2- she absolutely cannot have technology of any kind in her bedroom right now. She is not making safe choices with sleep/tech right now, and she’s refusing resources and help (I would absolutely double back to the doctor who prescribed Zoloft and tell them everything that’s happening now…it often takes a while to find medication that works for the individual).

Removing tech from the room should be done as kindly and lovingly as possible. She’s already depressed and anxious and feeling out of control, she does not need shame heaped on top of that. So, it’s more like: “hey, I love you so much. And I know that your schedule is not sustainable. Because you’re my kid and I love you, I’m gonna make some changes in your room to help get you to a safe place.” I often tell my teens that, “I am acting as your prefrontal cortex for now, until you’re able to consistently make safe choices.” She will be mad and probably reactive. Consider asking her, “I know you can’t have your phone or laptop in here, but maybe there’s something else we can give you to help? Ex: picking out a couple plants, a weighted blanket, new bedding, a few books or a special book light. Etc. Be as patient as you can be, bc this will be very disregulating for her, and every ounce of kindness you give her now will be something she remembers for life.

3- rope in her doctors and her school. I don’t know where you live but I cannot imagine the school has a lenient truancy policy. Is she not at risk for missing that many days? The school admin team needs to know you have a serious medical issue you’re navigating. Many times, the HS is so glad to have actual communication from parents that they’ll try to help. Her primary doctor should know she’s so far off her circadian rhythm because lack of sleep worsens depression and anxiety, lessens mental capacity, and leads to a host of health issues outside of those.

4- mandate family walks. Even just a 12 minute brisk walk in the morning when the sun is rising is HUGELY impactful for health, mental and physical. We actually need 10 minutes of 100,000 lux light exposure to help with things like depression and anxiety and sleep. (I recommend the book “52 weeks of walking,” I just finished it and it’s excellent.) alternately, while she’s still on a a rough cycle, i recommend nightly walks.

My heart goes out to all of you. My oldest has the same diagnosis. Shell be 17 in may. It’s been a really really tough few years. We finally got the right combo of meds working for her and it’s like a night and day difference…so I sincerely hope the same for you guys.

 

[katrina2017]

@k3at Look up Johann Hari’s Stolen Focus. Or Leonard Sax. I am 46 and it is a lot of work to stop checking next door and Reddit when I am stressed. Imagine teenagers. Could you find yoga studio and get her interested in Yoga Teacher Training certification. My kid won’t do yoga but got curious when I suggested certification. Seems like it added purpose. Take care of yourself too.

 

[ljk]

@k3at I had similar issues with sleep, school, and mental health when I was 16-17. Ultimately my mum pulled me out of school.

My mental health began declining first, I’d had pretty bad anxiety for years but in my final year of high school it ruled my life. I had been a straight A student but in my final year I was so scared of not getting the grades I wanted that I just couldn’t even try. It’s not that I didn’t want to be at school, I was just terrified and couldn’t get a grip on my mental health because I didn’t know how.

I began staying up all night because I’d tell myself I was going to study, but I’d procrastinate and it would be morning and I’d have nothing done. If I went to school I often slept through classes. I didn’t hand anything up and just stopped going so I didn’t finish high school. That in itself made me feel worse because I knew I was capable.

Perhaps this is the cause of your daughter’s poor sleep?
Unfortunately I don’t have any advice because I don’t know if I would’ve listened to anything when I was going through it. I saw someone else comment about an inpatient stay. That might be really beneficial.

 

[orion3003]

@stevej66 This is exactly what we do with my 16 year old daughter; otherwise, she would be up all night.

 

[liljohnnymac]

@k3at As someone who has suffered poor sleep for basically as long as I can remember… no electronics after 10:00 pm (turn off wifi if needed), set alarm for same time every day, address with pediatrician and get a 504 accommodation plan that allows her to rest in the nurse’s office during lunch. SSRIs can make insomnia worse (I take lexapro but also have to take other meds to sleep now that I’m on it) so if she needs an antidepressant, ask to explore other options. If pediatrician approves, try melatonin and lights out at the same time every night, maybe some music or white noise but no other stimulation. If that doesn’t work, maybe pursue other medication options.

 

[walter45]

@liljohnnymac I had a teenager with these kinds of challenges and removal of all electronic devices as core to them starting to get some good sleep hygiene. It's challenging, especially when they are on the cusp of adulthood.

You can't force them to do anything and in my case the child simply decided to go to their other parent's house where their mom simply couldn't put the boundaries in place that I was putting in place. he would play video games, stay up on his phone to all hours and never sleep. It turned him into an absolute nightmare of a person and he ended up on an involuntary hold in a behavioral therapy hospital than ended up lasting 10 days or so. THAT got him some sleep but he was still very resistant to change and ended up moving out instead of going in to a voluntary residential treatment facility.

 

[k3at]

@liljohnnymac Thank you!

 

[lgonz]

@k3at Have you considered putting her into inpatient care for evaluation? It doesn't have to be long-term- last year, I had a student with severe anxiety and depression issues who was hospitalized for, I think, ten days. When she came back to school, she was a totally different person, in the best way possible.

 

[kavi0808]

@lgonz This was going to be my suggestion. My daughter did a 7 day in patient to balance her meds. It was absolutely not butterflies and roses but she came out with a different approach and a good solid medication routine that led to a change in her situation. This was an incredibly hard decision for us to make but I feel it saved her life. Literally.

 

[masonmatt1000]

@kavi0808 Agreed.

 

[k3at]

@lgonz It might be something we look into.

 

[walter45]

@lgonz I was going to suggest this as well.

 

[lukemaster130]

@k3at We are going through a similar situation.

At first, we talked to her about it and formulated a plan, hoping to give her the space to manage her time on her own. This did not work so we went to Plan B, which was to restrict all her distractions. This included:

- Internet access. She's a gamer. We now restrict access to her device until her homework is done.

- Bedtime. No matter what, she has to be in bed by midnight. Internet get shut off at 11:30.

- Reinforcing dinner time - We let this go, but it is back.

- Pomodoro time - Helps her manage her study/activity time.

Basically, we built and are reinforcing routine and structure. She has always had issues with executive functioning; she tends to overload her schedule, then gets upset and paralyzed when her plan doesn't work.

My daughter has language processing issues. She is now in art therapy because it helps her better process, understand, and express herself.

She also takes 5mg of melatonin at night.

If it continues, perhaps consider doing a sleep study?

Good luck!