A plan for figuring it out

[patrick702]

Our little family of three had an idyllic Saturday morning. We went on a big bike ride (my son, 2, on the back) to a massive park. We brought sandwiches. We played and ate. I had a break and watched SO play with my son. Then we switched. We came home laughing and singing silly songs while riding. Then my son went to bed for his nap. It was 100% perfect.

I thought, ‘What would this be like with two?’.

Here’s something SO and I know for absolute certain: we do not want two kids close together. We don’t want a toddler and a baby. I have a million reasons for this that I could put in a separate post (while I’m on the subject, though, scrolling through threads on e.g. r/parenting about having a second has been useless in helping me decide because they all assume a 2 year-ish gap). If we have a second, we’re aiming for a 4-year gap.

So we have a good year still before we need to decide. But while I was daydreaming today, I thought up a “how to decide plan”. I know this is absolutely what will work for us, and so I’m putting it here in case anyone else can see it working for them.

At least a couple of months before we’d start trying for a second, we’re going to pretend we have an assignment to turn in. It’s basically a pros and cons list on steroids. We are going to think about absolutely everything - schedules/daily routines for the first couple of very difficult years, schooling and care, finances, food, extra curriculars, existential worries, absolutely everything we can think of. It’s going to take several “sessions” and a bunch of research. We both spent too long in educational institutions, and we wouldn’t turn in a paper without every box ticked and every point researched, so this suits us perfectly. We’ll put everything into a beautiful, organised and perfectly-formatted document.

Once we’re done, we’ll put it away and not look at it again. The document itself doesn’t really matter - it’s more the thorough process of producing it. By that point we’ve considered all that we can. It’s in our heads. We won’t discuss it for a week or so. And then we’ll sit down and talk about how we feel about having a second.

For me, this is perfect because I won’t have to worry about details of this and that by the time it comes down to feelings. It will all be “there” in the back of my head. And then I can trust my heart.

I don’t expect to never have any second thoughts, but I think this is the best we’re going to get. And then if I have any doubts, I can tell myself that I’ve already thought it over to the tiniest detail, and that second thoughts are natural, and leave it at that.

I hope this helps…someone!

 

[wogspeaker]

@patrick702 My sister and I were nearly 4 years apart. it's funny because growing up I never saw it as abnormal and when friends told me their siblings were only 2 years older or younger than them I was shocked. I remember thinking little sisters are supposed to be little, not so close in age that they're in your business and hanging out with your friends! I liked our age gap, because I got to feel like a big sister and show her things. When i turned 12 I was able to babysit without it being weird and I loved having the extra responsibility and money. To me, 4 years apart was the perfect age gap.

 

[patrick702]

@wogspeaker I'm so glad to hear you say this . I really like the idea of my son being a role model.

 

[daviddolphin]

@wogspeaker My older brother and I are two years apart and my younger brother and I are four years apart. Besides the middle school years with my younger brother (where tbh, everyone is awful anyway), I've always been closer with my younger brother. Just worked better for us!

 

[bytehoven]

@wogspeaker Me and my sister are nearly 4 years - got on really well - but we went to a really tiny school so the all pupils were split between only two classrooms. Any closer and we would have been together ALL DAY EVERY DAY. I was so glad I was never in the same classroom as my sister!

 

[jazzyd777]

@patrick702 That is such a great idea! Thanks so much for sharing.

We are sort of in the process of doing this- my husband (who is the one more on the fence than me) decided that before deciding “if” we needed to decide “when” so that we could actually get a clearer picture of what life would look like for us at that point in time. Eg, how old each kid would be at different points in time; where we’d be living; where he’d be at work-wise; whether our families would be able to help (we live in another country at the moment); what our current son’s schedule would be; etc. Its definitely been very useful and we’ve at least made progress on that front. For us it would be around a 3.5 year age gap (or a bit more depending on how long it take us to fall pregnant etc). Still undecided on the “if” but working on it.

The only criticism I have of this careful planning is that, as any parent would know, there’s just sooo many variables and unexpected things that always come into play. I mean I know this current situation is particularly weird, but think of all the people who are having babies now who expected there to be family help, childcare for siblings, and now have to do it all themselves and sometimes can’t even have their partners there at the birth. Your sibling could have a kid and your parents need to go and help them; someone could get ill or pass away. Your second kid could be a breeze, or a colicky nightmare or have health problems. You could have twins! Your kid’s childcare could close or they could get chicken pox a week after your baby is born. I know these all have varying levels of likelihood, but the point is that it’s so hard to really predict things. BUT that said, I am also a big planner and think this is still a great way to move forward and help with making the decision.

(Btw I totally agree about the over-representation of 2 year age gaps in other discussions - whenever I read posts in other subs complaining about how chaotic and hard it is with a 2 year old and a newborn, I just think “what did you expect?? Why would you do this to yourself?” Haha. My son is also 2 now and the thought of dealing with a newborn is just... no.)

 

[patrick702]

@jazzyd777

The only criticism I have of this careful planning is that, as any parent would know, there’s just sooo many variables and unexpected things that always come into play.

Totally. I can already imagine said document having a big long disclaimer at the beginning about this!

It won't be truly exhaustive for this reason, but I can imagine a few scenarios where attempting to make it 'complete' will help anyway, either by getting to the root of what the concern is or by showing us options/best and worse case scenarios.

Your second kid could be a breeze, or a colicky nightmare or have health problems.

A big part of the reason we might be OAD is precisely because our kid was a pretty difficult baby, and a nightmare sleeper. We don't know if we could survive the same again.

You guys sound like you're really on the way to figuring it out

 

[jazzyd777]

@patrick702

A big part of the reason we might be OAD is precisely because our kid was a pretty difficult baby, and a nightmare sleeper. We don't know if we could survive the same again.

Same here. Although now that we have done it on hard mode, perhaps the next one would seem easier and we’d be much more confident. We were so totally blindsided by our difficult baby last time. Also personally I think we’ve paid our dues and deserve an easy one next time ahh if only it worked that way haha.

 

[patrick702]

@jazzyd777 Oh that would be amazing if it worked like that.

I found a post from a mum once saying something like "thank god we left a gap between them because the second was just as shit a sleeper as the first" and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Also, don't ever mention twins again I like living in my fantasy world where twins can never happen to me

 

[joshjosh86]

@patrick702 My daughter will be 3 in 3 months and we are still not 100% sure about a second. I found this to be the best article laying out the general pros and cons of spacing out your kids. Hope this helps others! https://www.thealphaparent.com/what-no-one-tells-you-about-child/4/

 

[patrick702]

@joshjosh86 "When your kids play together, their play will have more value. ‘Play works best in terms of nurturance when those playing are at different stages in childhood’ (Gray)."

This this this!

Thank you so much. This page is exactly how I feel about all of it. Spacing kids is not a one size fits all thing but I wish more parents who have the privilege of being able to space their kids out more would consider it. Everyone seems a little obsessed with the "close together; best friends" thing.

How are you going at "the other end of 2"?

 

[joshjosh86]

@patrick702 So true. I get anxiety when all my friends get pregnant again when their first is a year. I felt behind the curve especially bc one of my sisters and I are 15 months airy and always very close. But having the ability to plan, and taking into the eye watering cost of child care, having 3-4 years between is where we’ll land if we have a second

 

[daviddolphin]

@joshjosh86 That was really interesting! I do think if I ever have another, I want my son to be in school. I felt like all the one on one time my son got with me was very beneficial and would want a second baby the same opportunity.

 

[patrick702]

@daviddolphin That's another reason for us, too. As my son gets older the possibilities for what I can do with him only increase. I'm not willing to give that up before he goes to school. By the time he's in school full-time (he'll be half time the year before) I'd have a ~1 year old who is probably just starting to walk and I will get to focus on them like my son gets now.