5 Year Old Screams to Disrupt Nap Time

[steve333]

Desperately needing some advice. My 5yo has refused to nap for the past 2 years. At daycare, she was provided quiet activities to do instead of nap. Sometimes she'd do them, most time she'd disrupt other kids by screaming, playing, throwing tantrums, etc. Now, she's in pre-k and the issues are continuing.

We've tried everything from rewarding for good weeks, grounding from tv, toys, and stuffed animals. Nothing has worked to even briefly correct the issues. She simply doesn't care.

Today, I received a call from her teacher. She threw such a loud fit that a teacher across the hall could hear. The principal had to go down and drag her from class to the office where she continued to throw a fit. I can't pick her up from school because she realizes that she can come home if she keeps the behavior up. Naps will continue into kindergarten so we have to get this corrected.

To clarify, these are not little tantrums or fits. This is blood curdle screaming and flailing. She will hit and kick. She's also never gotten her way after a fit and will acknowledge that it doesn't work. At home when she does this, we ignore her, but the teacher can't do that when there's other kids trying to nap.

 

[dontajohnson]

@steve333 So… I don’t have a lot of advice other than to say I think naps at 5 are an outrageous expectation. Giving up naps at 3 seems maybe early but not unusual, my son gave them up at 2.5 so I might be biased.

That being said I am struggling with this weird expectation that nap time is still such a big deal at 5.

At my daycare the kids who didn’t want to nap played outside during nap time. Can outside time be accommodated? Scream all you want outside, kiddo.

About the tantruming… I really am not sure. I’m sorry I don’t have much advice on that part.

 

[steve333]

@dontajohnson No, outside time cannot be accommodated in this situation. She is in public school and is expected to follow the schedule like the other kids in her class. Also, most of the other kids are napping during this hour and the few awake are able to stay quiet.

 

[dontajohnson]

@steve333 Seriously!? They have 5 year olds napping in public school? That’s crazy talk to me

 

[petrasophie]

@dontajohnson Nap time is standard for pre-K (ages 4-5) where I am, too. My child stopped napping at 3, but many of her classmates did sleep at nap time in pre-K.

 

[lisaoceanfloors]

@steve333 What does she say about why she's getting upset during nap time? If it's about the sudden drop in noise and excitement maybe she could be allowed to listen to music over headphones, if there's equipment available for that? Or if her behavior is solid the rest of the time, could she do a trial of visiting the grade one classroom during nap time?

 

[steve333]

@lisaoceanfloors She's either intentionally trying to wake the other kids up or if she's upset, she says she wants her dad. We've talked about how he isn't coming to the school no matter how much she screams (he is at work). She acknowledges that he isn't coming but that hasn't stopped the tantrums.

 

[lisaoceanfloors]

@steve333 So she's clearly upset, and wants her dad. But do you have any sense of why she's so upset, or why she wants the other kids to wake up?

 

[steve333]

@lisaoceanfloors Whenever we've asked why she wants her dad she just says she misses him. This is not a tantrum reason she had in daycare though. Previously it's only ever been because she didn't want to nap (that what she's told us).

Her teacher gives her quiet activities to do since she doesn't want to nap. She gets too loud playing with them though, so they are taken away. That's when the fits start and she starts crying for her dad.

 

[lisaoceanfloors]

@steve333 What kinds of activities is the teacher giving her? Are there any activities that your daughter will do quietly when she's at home? I'm wondering if your daughter is the kind of kid who can turn anything into a noisy game, or if the teacher needs to offer more suitable quiet activities.

 

[steve333]

@lisaoceanfloors For the most part she's pretty noisy, even when coloring

 

[lisaoceanfloors]

@steve333 That sounds like something that you could practice with her at home, maybe starting with a couple minutes at a time and working up from there. Maybe put a doll to bed and then practice being quiet together while it "sleeps"? Or pretend that a stuffy has a headache and loud noises will make its head hurt. I would encourage you to be as positive as possible and use a "whoops! Let's try again" mindset if she forgets to be quiet.

As for punishing a child that age for her behavior at school by taking stuff away at the end of the day, she's probably not going to make the emotional connection. The cause and the consequence are too far apart.

If she absolutely can't be quiet even for a short amount of time, it might be worth talking to her pediatrician to see if there's anything going on that makes it so difficult for her.

 

[steve333]

@lisaoceanfloors It less about being quiet and more about the tantrums and screaming fits she throws. She was with a therapist for 5 months and we saw little improvement. The therapist even mentioned that the tantrums were not normal for her age (specifically the severity).

Also I should have clarified.. it's not that she can't sit quiet if she wanted to. It's that she won't when she needs to. It feels almost combative. I do think we will be making a drs appt though

 

[filqwer]

@steve333 They take away her quiet activity, at a very hard time of day for her, and are surprised when she melts down??

 

[filqwer]

@steve333 I would stop with punishments personally, she's not responding to them anyway.

Behaviour is communication. She's struggling hard with something and this is how it's showing up.

I'd stop imagining she is doing it on purpose. She's losing control actually. Try to see her with that lens on rather than a bad kid / inappropriate/rude etc.

Which I mean 530am and rainy a school bus alone is a massive ask to stay the day for a 5 year old. And 730 to 530 is actually a bit short, she might not be tired enough to nap at age 5 but she probably needs 630-530.

"She's never gotten her way after a fit" - because she's not doing it to get anything. She's losing control of her coping skills and having a melt down. It's not a choice. She's tapped out by this time of day and she cannot do better right now.

The fact that she's loud is a rough combo.

In the book explosive child this is called an Unlucky kid. Some kids show us they're struggling in ways we like (asking for cuddles, explaining clearly the problem, feeling sad) and as such we give them support and sympathy. They feel supported and accepted and the parent or adult helps them cope with the problem.

Unlucky kids show us they're struggling in ways we consider inappropriate or rude (yelling shouting biting throwing, feeling angry) and so we are less likely to give them support and sympathy. These kids don't receive support or accepted and as such don't receive help and the problem not only continues but gets worse.

You have an unlucky kid. She shows she's struggling in ways her adults don't like and is even receiving punishment (losing tv, studies) so her situation is likely to spiral.

Is screaming acceptable? Socially no. Can you just threaten or bribe her towards not screaming? No. If she could, she would. Another line from explosive child is that children do well when they can. If they aren't doing well, they literally can't do better in that moment.

How does this school handle autistic children? Or disabled children? Why is there not support for your daughter, like to go outside?

Could she have headphones and an audiobook? A tablet with a show even, if it means everyone gets to nap and she is able to cope? A staff member to take her for a walk?

Or could she be pulled from school? Is there nature programs or less strict daycares in the area? Could you home school for a while?

She's clearly struggling, poor girl.

 

[tyforthebirds]

@steve333 INFO: What is her bedtime?
How much sleep is she getting?
Is she getting the time she is asking for with her dad?

I’ll come back to answer more after those are answered. But for now I can suggest every evening have a sit down to talk about expectations for the next day. Try to figure out how get her what she wants (sounds like time with dad), but she must behave appropriately at school.
We talked every evening about what the next day will look like, then went over it again the next morning, but not with a monologue, but by asking the kids what are their expectations, asking then what they will do and not do at nap time etc. They need to be able to verbalize what they are expected to do.

 

[steve333]

@tyforthebirds She goes to bed at 7:30 and wakes up at 5:30. Her dad gets her ready in the morning and puts her on the bus at 6:15. He also plays with her and her brother when he gets home around 5:45 and does 1 on 1 story time with her for about 20 minutes prior to going to bed.

When she gets off the bus we talk about how her day was. We've also been reminding her that nap time isn't just about what she wants and that she needs to be courteous and respectful to the other kids. We've asked her how she would feel if someone did what she is and she says "I'd be mad". We have this conversation every day that has nap time issues and finish with, "but tomorrow's a new day and let's do better tomorrow".

 

[sarukan65]

@steve333 I cannot imagine a world where 5 year olds nap. My son is 5 years old and is in school in a classroom environment. I do not understand how a school could possibly expect a grown boy to nap.

 

[steve333]

@sarukan65 This is a rural school so most of the kids are taking the bus which requires them waking up by 5:30. By the time afternoon rolls around, most kids are exhausted and take a nap.