Organic v Non Organic Laundry Detergent (Whole Foods)

[gopolang]

I have recently changed out all household cleaning products to be non toxic. I want to find a laundry detergent to wash my clothes and my babies clothes in that is non toxic. I have historically gotten the organic laundry detergent Whole Foods brand because it had the same ingredients as the Whole Foods Brand baby detergent.

TLDR- Is it a waste of money to buy organic laundry detergent?

 

[thelordismyreligion]

@gopolang In this context what does toxic even mean? In order to actually clean clothing, or anything, you need to use compounds that are reactive and you need to use them at an appropriate quantity. There is a saying in biology that the “dose makes the toxin”, and it 100% true. Even something like citric acid is toxic at a high enough concentration/exposure/dose.

Furthermore “organic” in this context does not tell you if something is highly toxic, or non-toxic. Organic, both the technical scientific term and the marketing term, are telling you nothing about safety. From a chemical perspective some of the most toxic chemicals know to man are organic.

All this to say, basically, yes “organic” detergents are generally a waste of money. Giving the cloths an extra rise cycle will do far more, by way of dilution, than a new formulation for your health.

 

[umrules]

@thelordismyreligion

Organic, both the technical scientific term and the marketing term, are telling you nothing about safety.

Indeed. If you go to your local hardware, you can buy several varieties of 100% organic paint thinner, all of which are horrendously toxic.

As a chemist, the willy nilly usage of the term "organic" irks me to no end

 

[danmat777]

@gopolang What do you mean by “non-toxic?”

For stuff like cleaning products - you need the “toxins” in order to kill bacteria. Most natural stuff isn’t strong enough to kill viruses and bacteria, which is the whole point of cleaning. It’s just cleaning dirt and grime off the surfaces. Bacteria thrives on handles and countertops and if you aren’t using products to kill the germs then it’s not clean.

The “toxic” stuff in detergents is the perfume as it can be irritating to the skin. A simple free & clear detergent is sufficient. It doesn’t contain perfumes. But no matter what the detergent is, there are going to be chemicals, because that’s how soap is made and how it gets things clean. Most of those products are expensive gimmicky products that use scare tactics. Chemicals aren’t scary.

Rant over: yes it’s a waste of money

 

[reebern]

@gopolang In general “non toxic” is a marketing term, used to scare people into spending more money on products. (And often those products have essential oils, which are actually harmful, so go figure.)

Anything that effectively cleans is going to be toxic if consumed. But assuming you’re just using to wash your clothes, I most like free and clear detergent, as added scents are harmful (google “scented detergent and VOCs” for more info) and aggravate my eczema.

 

[ponts]

@gopolang What the f is organic laundry detergent? Edit: like what makes it organic?

 

[gopolang]

@ponts I have no clue ….

 

[athena31]

@gopolang FYI, gasoline is organic. The only thing you really need to claim something as organic is hydrocarbons.

Also, you know how everyone thinks the “mineral” sunscreens are better than the “chemical” ones? Zinc/Titanium (di)Oxide sunscreens are inorganic. Avobenzone/octinoxate/etc. are organic. When I worked at a factory that made sunscreens we actually had a limit of how much Zinc Oxide we could drain to city sewage because of the environmental effects - but not any of the other active ingredients.

EVERYTHING is made up of chemicals. Your skin, your hair, your blood, water, wood, farts. Just like “organic” isn’t inherently good, chemicals aren’t inherently bad. They’re the building blocks of everything we interact with.

Cage-free eggs aren’t more humane than the ones not marketed as such (although they cost more). The chickens are still packed just as tightly but there isn’t technically a cage they’re contained in.

There is an entire industry on how to market to consumers to get us to buy what they want us to buy at a markup. Labels are not necessarily lies, but they will be as misleading as possible while still within the bounds of legality.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t be cognizant of what we buy and how it might affect us. I would recommend researching individual ingredients on a label to learn the purpose for including the ingredient, the inertness/reactivity of the ingredient, and any research behind if the ingredient is GRAS (generally recognized as safe without definitive evidence for or against), definitely safe, or definitively problematic (and at what concentration/level of usage/type of usage - is it safe to use topically but not safe to ingest?).

 

[joben]

@athena31 In the US, organic refers to specific agricultural standards. https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/organic-standards

A single word can refer to different things in different disciplines/realms of human endeavor.

I am not saying the US organic agriculture standards are perfect or important in a laundry detergent but you are either being semantic or you are ignorant of agriculture standards.

 

[athena31]

@joben I am neither being simply semantic nor ignorant of agricultural standards. According to your link, it is a specific designation of “USDA Organic”, not just the word “organic” - and even by your comment, it applies to agricultural standards, not laundry detergent.

Everything I said in my comment is true, and what you said is true as well. The fact that there is an actual set of standards that defines “USDA Organic” means that companies can leverage the public perception of the word “organic” to sell their products even if all they’re claiming is the chemical definition of organic, because there certainly isn’t a set of government standards that constitutes organic cleaning solutions.

 

[joben]

@athena31 You said “the only thing you need to claim something is organic is hydrocarbons”. That is true in chemistry. That is not true in product labeling.

If in the US, you sell a product as organic, then it has to be grown using USDA standards. For laundry detergent, this means soap made from plants that were grown organically.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/organic/labeling#labeled no cert

 

[athena31]

@joben Once again, there is a difference between non-agricultural “organic” labeling and “USDA Organic.”

Laundry detergent is a product, and it is being labeled as “organic” (but not “USDA Organic”).

It is not using this logo, but it is still being advertised as organic.

 

[katrina2017]

@gopolang Ok, so I thought that you were just mis-remembering the labeling on laundry detergent and subbing in "organic" for some other labelling such as all-natural / eco-friendly / free-from ... etc. But I googled it and apparently Whole Foods really does label their laundry detergent as organic, which seems weird to me.

I have been buying natural/eco laundry detergent for probably 15 years now (basically since I started buying my own laundry detergent). Never have I noticed the word "organic" on the label, because it's usually still mainly made with chemicals, just that they don't include ones that are generally considered to be harmful in the more crunchy circles, like phosphates other things that might get a red rating on the EWG website. (EWG is problematic, I know, but bear with me)

I made the switch to natural detergents because when I lived at home and wore clothes my mom washed in regular detergents, I would often get an red rash on the inside of my elbows, and I would get an itchy vulva (unrelated to any infections that might cause itchiness).

When I switched to all-natural laundry detergent (and deodorant, lotion, shampoo, hand soap, etc.), the itchiness and rashiness went away. When I temporarily use conventional products at other people's houses, itchiness, rashiness, and dryness comes back. This was all 10+ years ago when free and clear unscented options were not widely available.

Now that I can get free and clear Tide, that's what I've started using and I haven't noticed any issues for me (or my very sensitive-skinned 17 month old). I've subbed in various other regular unscented products for my usual "natural products", with variable results.

TLDR; Fragrance is the devil that makes my skin burn and may make your guests' skin/eyes/ears burn without you even knowing it. Use unscented products as much as you can. My controversial conclusion: If you can't find unscented, use the natural products. Finally, not sure why the Whole Foods laundry detergent is labeled "organic" when other brands use other types of labeling to imply that their product is formulated differently than conventional.

 

[joben]

@katrina2017 Yeah, I get miserable when visits to friends and relatives houses mean I have burning eyes and headaches from their scented laundry detergents.

 

[movieangel]

@gopolang It’s a waste of money because they won’t clean your clothes as well. Just get clean and clear detergent. It’s gentle, but still efficient at cleaning clothes.

 

[prayze]

@gopolang The “organic” and “chemical free” laundry detergents typically will not get your clothes clean enough. It’s a waste of money and you’ll have to use more to get your stuff less clean, including using more water & energy to clean your clothes.

 

[katrina2017]

@prayze I've used this type of laundry detergent for years and never had an issue with this.

 

[nrg23]

@gopolang Take a look at biokleen, molly’s suds and Puracy, attitude living. All work excellent without the crazy perfumes and whatnot (endocrine disruptors, etc).

 

[katrina2017]

@nrg23 Yes! I feel like the conversation about "is non-toxic/all-natural just marketing bull" and "are conventional fragrances harmful" need to go hand-in-hand but for some reason it rarely does.

And while people love to crap on essential oils (because MLMs definitely ruined them for everyone), if a product is scented with essential oils, I can easily scan the ingredients to see if it's anything that I know I react to. Not so easy when the myriad of ingredients used to scent a product just get blanketed in to "parfum".

 

[devorgilla]

@gopolang I use Sal Suds, get it off of Amazon. Little goes a long way!