Need advice about son who acts immature 24/7

[megan1969]

Hi all. I was hoping you could give me (mid-thirties dad of 4 kids, 2 of them teens) some ideas on how to handle my son’s unique personality. He just turned 15. He acts incredibly immature almost 24/7 and it always causes fights amongst all our kids (him and 3 daughters) or between him and us parents. Things like physical pushing, pinching, hitting towards his sisters if they annoy him, throwing things at his sisters all day long, having tantrums if he doesn’t get his way, always looking to push buttons to annoy us (legitimately he tries to annoy us) etc. It may sound silly but it’s truly toxic because my wife and girls can’t just ignore him. They feed into the attention and scream, most of the time just to get attention but sometimes actually out of pain. And at that point we usually just tell him “Billy stop doing that or we’re going to take away X (money, video game, mobile phone, etc)”. which has almost zero affect because we rarely follow through on those things. I know we aren’t doing the right thing here, so I’m wondering if you can share any ideas that could be a better response to coach him into more mature behavior. Any ideas or help is appreciated.

 

[katrina2017]

@megan1969 “Say what you mean. Mean what you say.” is the best advice I got from many books I read on raising defiant kids. “How to talk to kids so they listen, and listen so they talk” is a great book. “Love and Logic for Teenagers” is also a great resource. Point system while cumbersome to plan, adjust, and execute, worked wonders for us. Lastly, consult a medical professional about possible mental health conditions like adhd or odd.

 

[latenighttrain]

@katrina2017 My thoughts were similar and those two books are great! The teens behavior is described here as immature. I’m a Montessori preschool teacher and we call that behavior poor impulse control. Children, with guidance and firm and consistent boundaries, tend to grow out of that behavior (they naturally and logically get to the point where they can choose NOT to follow the impulse) UNLESS they are later found to be ADHD. A person with adhd is just being themselves, although that’s so hard for us to understand (or tolerate!) sometimes. It can definitely feel like the sons behavior is directly AT YOU, but I suspect he isn’t. If his impulse control at 15 is so limited that he literally CANNOT be his best self, some diet changes and possibly meds can flip the switch and help.

 

[megan1969]

@latenighttrain Thanks. My youngest (now 8 y/o) has actually been in Montessori for her whole education so this makes sense although she is very similar to our oldest in terms of over-the-top reactions to things like screaming at the top of her lungs if anyone bugs her. I feel like there might be a little bit of ADHD at play (doctor said he was borderline a long time ago). But I hope its something we can train them out of through practice and perseverance.

It’s interesting what you said about diet control. He takes WAY too much sugar and caffeine and I have a feeling that is a factor. Problem is now he’s old enough to buy Starbucks and candy himself, it’s getting difficult to control.

 

[katrina2017]

@megan1969 Ah 15. Where they no longer speak coherently but mumble. They are trying to figure out this world we live in, however disrespect towards his sisters is a firm NO. You need to follow through with those ultimatums, even though it hurts you to do so. He is more than likely a great kid but he needs to learn that he shares his home. Speaking from experience here, I have the constantly angry boy easily irritated by his siblings.

 

[megan1969]

@katrina2017 He is a good kid for sure. I know he has a good heart. It’s almost like some of this is an act, to be more assertive and strong. In reality i think he is sensitive but just hides it behind this bully demeanor. In front of strangers he is quiet, shy and timid. That’s why i was wondering if maybe the threats are the wrong approach, since maybe he just needs to find other ways to vent. But ya, hitting his sisters is totally unacceptable especially at 15.

 

[latenighttrain]

@megan1969 Teenaged must feel SO disconnected right now. They need peers. The pandemic is so hard. And so much chemistry is pumping through a teenage boy. They are literally growing/forming their frontal lobe.
My 15year old was super sad at the end of a long week. He was short fused, temperamental, grumpy. I told him I noticed he wasn’t himself. Told him to sit with me. He vented and complained. I didn’t lecture or try to problem solve. Just sat there with his feelings. After a while we put on a rejuvenating face mask & he played a funny YouTube video where 20-30year old boys had roomba races and we laughed.

 

[bronald]

@megan1969 Instead of not dealing with your son, you are choosing to not advocate for the family members he is harassing. How about making the siblings feel comfortable in their own home and parenting your son instead of letting him get away with this?

In my house, my children (16f and 12m) are not allowed to physically touch each other unless it’s affection and even then, they need to make sure the recipient of the affection wants to be touched. This will move beyond the borders of my home and into real life with my son knowing about consent.

Like you say, there may be mental health issues, but this touches on so many things, like respect, empathy, dignity and more. He needs to treat everyone like he wants to be treated and you as the adult, need to show him how to do this by sticking up for your other children.

 

[megan1969]

@bronald We do stick up for the girls especially if its unprovoked. Sometimes the girls (especially the youngest who is 8 y/o) pushes his buttons to get him to freak out (eating his candy, touching stuff in his room) and we have to be fair. But I wouldn’t say the girls feel unsafe or anything. It’s more of annoying and teasing type of behavior and not literal abuse. That said, i agree that he’s still way too old to be acting this way and should know better. I really think its ADHD related or developmental. Like I mentioned elsewhere the doctor originally said he was borderline so we decided not to medicate.

 

[jaydubb]

@megan1969 A lot of what you described is on our son's ADHD indicator sheet that we fill out when he visits his doctor. I'm not trying to push medication but our pediatrician was great and told us that the behavior he's trying to elicit in all of us (annoying, pestering, arguing etc) is a stimulant for himself. So constantly annoying someone turned his brain on and he was rewarded with their reaction. It was his way of regulating relaxation and a brain at work. Kids with ADHD struggle with that. He also explained to us that medication was going to help him in the long run because children in his age group without ADHD were going to be maturing and they would pass him. It would be uncomfortable for him as a teen and he would then act out even more leading to more isolation. He explained that while medicating is everyone's individual choice, it would help him mature at the same rate as his friends and not be an outcast which would contribute to the anxiety and self-consciousness that the majority of ADHD children have. He was definitely correct because we were already seeing it. I'm sure at 15 it's even harder to realize you're not fitting in or maturing while also not being able to control it.

We gave our son medication during school and let him go off of it in the summer and on the weekends so that he can practice mentally maintaining the exercise his brain needs to build up the stamina to handle some of the mental loads he's going to need in the future. Just a suggestion.

We chose to do it because there was a window of time that his brain was developing and we didn't want him to develop negative feelings about himself. We were already seeing that he couldn't make sense of his actions. And I hear you saying that your son is such a good kid. I believe that he is! Our son was as well. We always said exactly what you are saying-Because the actions didn't reflect the intention. When we started him on his medicine we all cried because he didn't realize he could feel this way and we didn't realize how hard it was for him everyday. Maybe find a new psychiatrist and see if you can get a second opinion. Most are very hesitant to diagnose before third grade. Best of luck! Medication and counseling have the best long-term results. Medication doesn't have to be permanent. But the relationship that he's building with himself and his family is. Maybe he just needs a little bit of help to get through that.

 

[anita5050]

@megan1969 You answered your own problem
In the last few sentences.

Follow through and consistency are all that’s gonna work.

He’s a teenager.
Talk to him.

It’s a pandemic.
Talk to him.

Anger will not solve anything.
He’s clearly feelin some crap.

Watch some videos on active listening with teenagers.

Don’t react. Just listen.

If this is more than what you are talking about here; then seek professional help for him.

 

[megan1969]

@anita5050 I will do that. Thanks. I know he’s a good kid. In front of strangers he is shy, timid and quiet. I think there is something deeper going on that has been festering for years or even since he was a little. We took him to a therapist once (he was around 8 or 9) to see if they thought he had ADHD or ADD but they said it was not bad, maybe borderline. But i think listening to what is happening in his mind will help, if he would open up (which i dont think he will very easily).

 

[latenighttrain]

@anita5050 YES!!!

 

[marybeee]

@megan1969 I’m wondering if he is feeling like he does not get personal positive attention. What if you started doing something with him twice a week. Just you and him. And then see if one of his siblings might want to do an activity with him.

Turn things positive. What does he like to do? Is he artsy and wants to paint pottery or sporty and wants to throw the football? Be pro active and invite him to one on one outings. Reframe his interactions into positive interactions to retrain his brain to want positive interactions.

 

[monstershouter]

@megan1969 You've created the problem with your lack of follow through. Fix that and you'll fix the problem

Only, now instead of your problem being a 5 year old tantrum, you have to deal with a 15 year olds tantrum, and those can be much more destructive.

 

[megan1969]

@monstershouter I know. He is a good kid, just spoiled and used to getting his way. To complicate matters my wife has frequent depression (bipolar) and tends to defend and enable his bad behavior, i guess out of guilt. It doesn’t help that we aren’t on the same page.

 

[laurapalooza]

@megan1969 My advice is your son needs professional help. Start with a cognitive behavioral therapist.

 

[megan1969]

@laurapalooza Thanks. It will be difficult to jump right to dragging him to therapy without him realizing the need for it. He feels like his actions and responses are reasonable (even though they are not) so i think we need to first do what someone else mentioned and try to listen to why he thinks this behavior is justified and if things are not getting better at least then we’ve established that his behavior doesn’t match what we all agree is acceptable. Not saying therapy isnt needed, it probably will help, i just have no idea how to get him from HERE to THERE right now without kicking and screaming.

 

[laurapalooza]

@megan1969 Physical assault is never justified, except in self defense to prevent serious injury to yourself. Start with that ground rule and have him explain himself.

 

[d3ottawa]

@megan1969 Determine what behavior you want that is incompatible with the immaturity and try to reward that. If you can find something he already does that you would like him to do more, use that. Reward with praise and attention. Good luck.