Having "the talk" (a.k.a. I'm pro-OAD, partner wants more)

[huskyblue]

Title says it all. On a burner acct.

I'm looking for advice on how to have an empathetic and supportive conversation with my partner as we look to make a "final" decision on family building.

The details:

• me: 42M, spouse: 39W
• child: 2 y/o M, IVF
• still a few embryos frozen @ about $1500/year total cost

Not an easy journey to get pregnant or first year of parenting. Both of us had some level of PPD, to date neither has gotten off their ass to talk to a therapist about it.

Having a kid was never a must do for me but I love hanging out with ours (and he's the only kid I actually like being around). I am content with my division of time towards (in no order): child, spouse, myself, my career. But I have zero spare time (e.g. I'm finally typing this post while on a zoom call). Travel is also extremely important to me and another child punts back our ability to travel, both as a couple and a family. I worry that a 2nd child will break my equations in terms of use of time, money, and energy - frankly I worry it will make me unhappy and resentful (perhaps that's childish and selfish).

Spouse wants another, primarily so that our kid has someone to lean on in life. We live across the country from our brothers and sisters, meaning our kid is across the country from his cousins. This point isn't lost on me. We are relatively older parents and thoughts of our mortality have become more frequent for me. Perhaps it wasn't fair of me to say "primarily" because that minimizes the other reasons she might have, but they haven't been fully articulated to me.

However, I can't bring myself to go deeper (or return) to a place of utter unhappiness that was our first year of parenting. I had so many regrets and even now the unemotional side of me knows I didn't understand the all consuming nature of parenting before taking the plunge (yes, you can judge me but this is my truth). I've always told friends that you don't have a kid unless you're 110% "IN" and while I've finally gotten myself to that place with our kid, I don't know that I can manufacture that commitment again.

Anyway, this is a conversation that will likely end with one of us making the biggest sacrifice of our lives for the other. I'm extremely steadfast in my point of view (y'all have no idea), she seems to be as well.

Obviously in this post you're only hearing my point of view but also this post isn't about what we should decide but instead how we go about deciding.

I am searching for answers on how to structure and carry the conversation with as much empathy and compassion for the other, to lessen the blow to whoever yields and support them through dealing with a massive change to their life expectations.

 

[cbdbrian]

@huskyblue I’ll just weigh in as someone who is on your wife’s side of things meaning I want another but my husband is in the OAD camp. My husband and I have been in couples therapy for over a year and did broach the topic in a few of our sessions. Our therapist subscribes to the Gottman method so I’d recommend checking out their website for ideas on how to communicate effectively and listen empathetically. It may take more than one conversation and I know I’ve found individual therapy helpful for myself in processing all that I’m feeling day to day. Best of luck

 

[huskyblue]

@cbdbrian Thank you for sharing this! I'll check out the Gottman method.

Really appreciate it.

 

[ayen57]

@huskyblue I'm in a different situation bc single so no partner to negotiate with. Also was originally very upset about not being able to have a second child due to age related infertility.

First no it's not childish and selfish, any more than any personal preference. Would it be selfish to not want a job you didn't like for the next 20 years? There's such a thing as healthy self-interest. You don't want to purposely do things that undermine your wellbeing.

On a personal level some of the things that are slowly starting to appeal to me about OAD are the freedom to travel bring my kid places that I probably wouldn't be comfortable bringing two kids. As well as having financial breathing room.

Most important though if I were having this conversation with a partner the thing that would really make an impact on me is them presenting it as this is their limit. Because we all have limits. One of the most important things in a relationship is being able to recognize and respect another person's limits.

What would really hinder a productive conversation is partner coming at me with all the "logical" reasons why I "should" agree to OAD. Gross generalization but I think a lot of times men approach emotionally loaded conversation with women as "Let me get my points in and make a really strong case she can't argue with, then I win."

You can't really "win" on something like this.

If I felt like I was being herded in a certain direction, that would shut me down.

Whereas if I felt that the person was coming from a position that, "I just can't do this and still be a healthy, happy functioning person," that would get my attention and my empathy. Because there are many analogs for me. And I would not want a miserable partner who feels pushed beyond their limits.

 

[huskyblue]

@ayen57 This is really helpful and I'm definitely guilty of that "logical case" approach. Really appreciate it!

 

[ayen57]

@huskyblue Sure, glad it was helpful! These conversations can be difficult for all of us. Best of luck and take care!

 

[innerfire89]

@huskyblue i had this talk with my husband twice. the first time was quite a while back where he found out about my OAD preferences, the second time was recently (a few weeks ago) when he asked if i was still OAD.

to be honest, it was uncomfortable and there was no getting around the fact that we felt fundamentally differently and he “lost”, because we are still OAD. but the thing that helped us was really talking about our emotions and wishes around kids. we understood each other’s points even if we felt differently. he said that helped him to accept things. he’s usually pretty logic based but this time coming from our feelings helped. i hope this helps you both!

 

[bethelxhillsong]

@huskyblue Hey mate,

I’m in a very similar position to you regarding your view on kids prior to having one, the insanity that is parenting a newborn and baby and that knowing a second will probably break you in some way or another.

We’ve recently (just this week) decided to discard (for lack of a better word) our remaining IVF embryos.

Therapy has really helped us both and potentially having that neutral third party therapist there to help guide the conversation is what’s needed here.

It’s going to be tough, emotional and probably going to be a while before the grieving is done.
Be supportive, understanding and compassionate but also stay strong.
If you’re like me and you know you’re OAD then you need to stay that way. I agree what you said that you need to be 110% for having a kid. I was probably 95% with the first one and that 5% still haunts me occasionally. So I know that brining in a second one when I am 0% wanting one will be a disaster. It would be so unfair for my son!

Best of luck fellow dad, It sounds like you’re trying your best to make sure this is done right and your partner is looked after so I have faith you’ll get through this!

 

[huskyblue]

@bethelxhillsong thank you for the supportive words and sharing your experience sorting this out. super helpful.

 

[abraham7777]

@huskyblue My husband wanted a second, I don’t. Our son is also IVF, we are paying embryo storage fees. Allow your wife space to grieve the family she wishes she’d had. But also be firm as to why you are OAD. If you waver and give her hope, it’ll be more even more disappointing for her down the road.

 

[huskyblue]

@wisdomandlove that had been my approach for some time but it dawned on me that this is part of my partner's dream and i'd been quietly allowing it to fade out on some biological technicality simply because she is at times averse to confronting difficult situations. i was basically taking advantage of that.

i realized that isn't the way i want this to go down. i don't want to get my way in a manner that might result in her blaming herself years later for not bringing it up, that's unfair to her. so i told her it's a conversation we need to have sooner rather than later, before mother nature decides it for us.

so now that conversation awaits and i want to be a better husband than i've been. i don't see myself yielding but i really gotta try to support her through what happens after. i'm taking away a dream of hers / she'd be setting aside her dream for me. beyond trying to figure out how to have the conversation, the aftermath will warrant so much support, i'm trying to sort out how to be there in the right ways.