Feedback request for sleep training plan for 6 m/o!

[kisame2602]

Hi all! Long time lurker first time poster here. I’ve read a ton in this sub and have read some of the heavy hitters (PLS, how babies sleep, cyclemam’s guide on here, etc etc etc). We have an almost 6 month old who has never been a great napper (fights them/very short) but used to do okay with night time sleep. Things have all taken a turn since the 4 month sleep regression that hit us in the 3-4 month range. We’re getting ready to do some proper sleep training and would love some feedback on our planned approach!

Background/context:
- Healthy almost 6 month old
- Ebf
- In own crib in our room (plan to move to own room soon)
- Have had a consistent bedtime routine for a while now, do a shorter version for naps
- Wake windows are aprox: 2/2.25/2.25-2.5/2.5-2.75
- Naps are still kinda all over the place - 30 mins - 1.75 hrs (rare). We cap the second and third ones if he does sleep long enough that they would mess with bedtime, and I try to rescue them if they are so short that getting to bedtime will be rough. Usually gets 2.5-3.25 hrs naps.
- Usually in bed 7:15-7:30, lately wakes at midnight, 3ish, 5ish - has a hard time going back to sleep here and we usually bring into our bed where he’ll fuss and then feed but eventually go back to sleep til 6:30-7.
- We tried the PSL FIO experiment for 2 nights - first night full on scream cried for 15 mins, went in picked him up and rocked him for 2 mins and he was out and slept well til almost 2. Second night he cried for 8 mins, fell asleep for 3 mins and then got right back to it for another 5. Went in and rocked him and he went to sleep after a bit, woke up a bunch that night though.

So! Here’s our plan:
Bedtime:
- Feed
- Bedtime routine (books/songs/cuddle)
- Sleep sack, key phrase, sound machine on, lights out
- Rock/cuddle to soothe (2 mins ish)
- Put into crib, rub belly/back for 5 mins, leave for 10 mins
- If asleep - great!
- If fussing - Go in and soothe In crib for 1 min, leave for 10 again
- If crying - Go in and soothe In crib for 5 mins, leave for 10 again
- if still crying - go in and pick up for 5, leave for 10
- If still crying - go in and rock/get to sleep however needed

Night wakings:
If before midnight:
- Wait 5 mins - Soothe in crib for 5 mins, leave for 10
- If still crying - pick up for 5 and leave for 5
- If still crying - rock/get to sleep however needed

After midnight:
- Feedings ok, every 3 hours
- If less than 3 hours follow night waking plan

Questions:
- Bedtime actually goes pretty well these days - we do feed, books or songs, sleep sack, white noise, lights out, rock/cuddle a min or two, put in crib and rub belly or back for 2-5 mins while he falls asleep. Planning to reduce this so he is eventually just put in crib and falls asleep completely on his own. Our real struggles are naps (always been a struggle) and night wakings (newer issue, he used to wake less and could just feed and plunk back into crib no issues). Do we implement our sleep training rules at both Naps and night wakings? What if he never gets any nap time in?!
- Are we screwing ourselves by modifying our approach for night time wakes? We set a shorter time limit because we’re wimps haha.
- He has gone longer without eating at night but lately we’re stuck in a pattern of midnight feeds. Last night my partner spent almost an hour trying to get him back to sleep (11:30-12:30) before I ended up feeding him. Should we try reducing the length of this feed? Or just keep it for now?
- if he wakes at night after midnight and it’s been less than 3 hours (It’s often only 2.5), do we try to get him back to sleep but if it hits the 3 hour mark feed him then (even if he’s been Crying/upset the whole time)?

Sorryyyyy this is so long!! Welcome any feedback or suggestions, things feel like they are getting away from us and I’m so tired lol

 

[kisame2602]

First night went really well! Dad put him down (for the first time!) pretty much right after bedtime routine, straight into the crib. 3-4 mins of just a hand on his belly and he was out. Woke up at 11:30, we flipped him from belly to back and then he fussed/cried for 10 mins. Dad went and put a hand on him in the crib for 3 mins and he went back to sleep. Woke up and fussed for another 5 mins but we just left him and he went back to sleep on his own til 2:45 when I fed him!
Woke for another feed at 5:15, back into crib. Woke 20 mins later, followed the exact same routine as at night and he went back to sleep 6:15-7 am!
I think we’ve just been getting in his way lately. We’re going to work to reduce the time for soothing when put down to get to just putting in the crib awake, and same for night wakes.
I’m sure things will still go sideways along the way but it’s a very encouraging start!

Edit: I should add we are realizing a big issue is that he has been rolling back to belly since like 3.5 months but still can’t roll belly to back. He rolls to his belly to sleep and is usually good there but sometimes he wakes up and gets mad that he’s stuck there. So for now we’re flipping him like a pancake and giving him a chance to go back to sleep on his own and we’ll be doing lots of practice rolling during the day.

 

[knowledgeisnotignorant]

@kisame2602 What Comprehensive_Bill said about bedtime training and not putting baby asleep once you start. Honestly as right now you're getting him to fall asleep with 2-5 minutes of back rubbing, I don't think you'll have a problem. He should be able to fall asleep on his own with

 

[kisame2602]

@knowledgeisnotignorant Thanks for the detailed reply! Whether the

 

[trivalee]

@kisame2602 Your plan sounds mostly fine until the point that you say "If still crying - go in and rock/get to sleep however needed". This won't work. Sleep training is until the baby falls asleep otherwise you're training your baby to cry to get your help.

For bed time, you need to keep repeating this "if still crying - go in and pick up for 5, leave for 10" until baby falls asleep.

For night wakings, you need to keep repeating this "If still crying - pick up for 5 and leave for 5" until baby falls asleep. I would not use 5 minutes overnight though. I would go with 10 minutes always because 5 minutes is too short and might lead to more crying in the middle of the night, which is the least desirable time to listen to your baby cry.

The second thing is this rubbing of 5 minutes. You'll put your baby to sleep? If your goal is independent sleep, I would not spend 2 minutes rocking plus 5 minutes soothing the baby in their cot.

 

[kisame2602]

@trivalee Thanks for the reply! Okay, deep down I know you’re right and I’m just being a wimp. We’re going to give it a go starting tonight as you suggested. Thanks for the reality check!

Also - we’re a week shy of 6 months. What sort of wake windows do you suggest for 6 months?