Arguing in front of the kids…

[alexsad]

Ok so me and the wife have been married 13 years, have 3 boys (ages 12, 10, 6). Like many couples we argue at times, sometimes heated. Weve started counseling, and it’s yielding some positives. One contention point I had with our counselor was in regards to what we can/should say to our kids. My 10 y/o is very emotional & insightful. He asked me if we were getting divorce as one of his close friends parents are going through one. I said a few things in response-
1- remember no matter what, we both love you and always will
2- we’re going to work to stay together
3- it’s def not your fault

I then proceeded to tell him (what I feel) is the truth- both me & his mom work real hard & are often stressed b/c of the endless adulting (both at home/office). I then said he could def help us feel less stress, thus fight less by listening when we tell him to do things (homework, clean room, brush teeth etc).

Apparently both my wife & the counselor thought that was a mistake & all he heard was ‘it’s my fault’ for xyz. I’m simply wondering if there’s research to back that up. I would feel communication is best when it’s truthful, even for a 10-year-old. But I am willing to hear other opinions and grow from that.

TIA…

 

[betelo995]

@alexsad Sounds to me like you are brushing off reasonable criticism in hopes of finding a unicorn study that supports your bad behavior. As a scientist, that's not the right way to approach the lit.

 

[innakissie]

@alexsad The way you phrased things to your 10yo may indeed make him think it's his fault you guys fight. While the stress of kids may be indeed a contributor, it's YOUR REACTION to that stress that YOU need to manage. While yes it would help if the kids were more cooperative, your mental health is not their responsibility. You would do well to go back to your kid and clarify this.

Asking for research? Go look at any child psychology and parenting book by professional psychologists. It's common knowledge at this point.

 

[alexsad]

@innakissie K. I feel like I tried my best to lift him up and let him know that. I have revisited that with him as well.

Any specifics in regards to the scholarly side of things? There’s so much out there to know what’s real or fake/biased…

 

[innakissie]

@alexsad I would recommend to you an app called "in love while parenting." It's free, an educational tool developed by psychologists to help parents learn manage their own interpersonal conflicts with each other and with their kids.

It includes discussion on why we need to model good conflict resolution behavior for our children.

I'm getting the impression you're just looking for something to say explicitly that blaming your kids for your own poor behavior is a no-no, in order to believe what your wife and therapist have already said.

 

[alexsad]

@innakissie Ty, I’ll look into it. And while that last statement was unnecessary and inflammatory, it’s not far off. I hired a therapist because I’m willing to listen (which makes all the down votes in this thread, all the more hilarious and demonstrates how negative many here are) & I don’t just believe blindly. I felt differently and if you want me to act or behave differently, you better demonstrate that to me with actual data (not just because I said so)…

 

[onlyhuman777]

@alexsad You're wrong. It was not unnecessary or inflammatory. It was the truth. You're getting downvoted because you're explicitly ignoring professional advice. Your therapist said one thing, your wife said the same thing, everyone else in the thread says the same thing, and you're resisting, why? You're doing a thing that a lot of people do where you don't want to listen unless someone or something you respect says it.

You're undermining your therapist and her expertise, and you're undermining your wife. Do you think they're just too stupid to know what they're talking about? You don't trust or respect your wife or the therapist. Do you see this going well? Really really ask yourself these things. If you DO respect them, tell them. Especially your wife, bc the way you're acting DOES NOT show it.

and if you want me to act or behave differently, you better demonstrate that to me with actual data (not just because I said so)…

People "better" demonstrate to you why you should test them with respect and speak carefully to your children? Really? So your son shouldn't listen to you until he confirms with sources he trusts? Or are you the only one that needs stuff to be proven to you, because you're sooo logical and rational? The same with your wife? You tell her something and it's cool that she doesn't respect it for a few days until she takes it over your head and confers with someone smarter than you?

Some people here are negative, but I don't see that in this thread. We're trying to help you but you're not humble enough to accept criticism. I have a very happy marriage. But if my husband had your attitude, I would SERIOUSLY consider leaving, and that's after reading like three paragraphs that you wrote. You don't give off willing to listen and adjust your behaviors.

 

[innakissie]

@alexsad Here are two articles with references to earlier studies: what happens to children when parents fight

arguing in front of your kids

I appreciate that you want to read some reliable articles and can admit that it's difficult to discern which ones are real and fake. Generally choosing articles from major health and science websites, written by professionals practicing in the industry, citing multiple linked studies performed professionally. And then corroborate their info with other articles from similar industry standard websites, professional-written and corroborated with other studies.

 

[alexsad]

@innakissie Ty

 

[chris2552]

@alexsad But what you said to 10 wasn’t true.

If he did his homework or listened more, would you stop fighting? Is his hw the primary cause of your stress? Because even if he was perfect, your wife and you would still fight, right? I assume you also fight about the other kids, chores, money, etc. And when he hears you still fighting, he will still think “oh if I had listened/whatever, they wouldn’t doing this”. I know that you don’t feel this way but it’s very easy for a kid to internalize that. Even if you explicitly say you don’t mean it

 

[alexsad]

@chris2552 I could argue yes- if the kids listened more, the stress level would be greatly reduced & little problems don’t become big ones as easily. However, at the end of the day, it’s a irrelevant, just like your statement, because its mostly either anecdotal or ‘that’s just like your opinion man.’ I realize people have lots of emotional responses to subjects like this. I, however, am looking for more researched backed answers as I have a hard time navigating psychological topics versus say, nutritional or exercise. Actual articles that demonstrate factually what interactions with kids can do and how it may impact their health, or the quality of their lives. No offense intended and I appreciate your interaction. I’m sorry as the communication in this format is easily misrepresented.

 

[l4legit]

@alexsad If it hasn't been recommended, I'd check out 'How to talk so kids will listen'. It's a pretty highly recommended book, and we use some of the techniques from the version for younger kids presently.

While getting the kids on board will help reduce stress, it doesn't help that fighting is your reaction to stress - you would benefit from digging into where that stress response developed and how to go about mitigating it. I'd also look into what the perfect life looks like to you, and WHY, and what in that is actually feasible and what you need to give up on.

 

[alexsad]

@l4legit Ty

 

[onlyhuman777]

@alexsad https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9589280/

Look for sources from universities or government. Peer-reviewed articles, jstor, pubmed, American (if you are) Academy of Pediatrics. The same as you'd do with nutrition or exercise

 

[chris2552]

@alexsad r/Sciencebasedparenting

 

[alexsad]

@chris2552 Wow, thank you.

 

[marjmorris]

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[wini]

@alexsad Do you also resolve your arguments/conflicts in front of the kids?

How about straight up telling your kids "mum and dad live each other. We both feel stressed our about work and other grow up things. We aren't dealing with the stress very well. You've probably noticed we've been arguing a lot lately. Well while it's ok to disagree with people you love it's not OK to use loud voices or say mean things. So we're getting some help. We are working on ways to manage our stress better. We are working on ways remember to stay polite when we disagree and have arguments. Because we do love each other and we really do want to solve our arguments."

I think you should apologise to your 10 year old and remind him that him not listening isn't the cause of you arguing with your wife.

 

[onlyhuman777]

@alexsad To a child, you said, mom and I argue because of stress. You cause stress by not listening. Therefore, it's partially your fault we fight, and you can keep us from divorcing by behaving.

To an adult mind, it makes sense that the relationship between those things is not causal, and that that's not what you said. To a child, probably.

Plus, why are you looking for advice when the therapist, the professional that you hired, is giving her expert opinion?

Your reconciliation with your wife will not go well if you're not willing to listen to her, the therapist, or anyone else.

I'm not trying to judge or jump to conclusions here, but maybe hearing it from a male therapist would make more sense to you? Maybe an individual therapist for you?

You need to hear this, but you're obviously a big part of the problem here. I hope you can take ownership of your contribution to the breakdown of your marriage, and not just blame your wife, your kids, and "stress."

Life is stressful. You can get through it WHILE respecting your wife and kids. It is a child's job to test boundaries and rebel. It's part of learning. No human being is going to be perfect, and children deserve a lot of grace. A 10 year old hasn't developed the capacity for abstract thinking (that's about age 12), and is nowhere near close to his brain being fully developed.

Plus, you chose to have kids. Whatever is happening in your marriage is down to you and your wife. NOT your kids. Maybe you had kids without being aware that they present challenges. Maybe having 2 was easy, but having 3 is a different ballgame. Still has nothing to do with the kids. Take parenting classes, get family counseling. Don't blame your kids. You're blaming them subconsciously, and it's come out to your son.

You did the wrong thing. Be a good parent and model what to do when you do the wrong thing. Talk to your son, apologize, clarify. Check in with him to make sure he understands that it's not his fault. Otherwise you cutoff kickstart a lifetime of anxiety, people-pleasing behaviors, and who knows what else.

 

[alexsad]

@onlyhuman777 You’re wrong. That’s a good way to start a conversation.

You don’t want to jump to a conclusion? literally right before you jump to a conclusion.

If you would’ve read what I wrote instead of filling in the blank with your own agenda you, would know I respected my therapist enough to inquire about her point. I was here looking for more formal backings about why or why not I would listen (which I have found through other helpful sources here as opposed to what you offered). I’ve been in and around the therapy scene long enough to know even they and the research can have varying opinions.

Edit- I missed the one helpful thing you offered. So thanks….