Wife feeling excluded

[x902xxipher]

Hi all,

I’ve read a lot of helpful things in this sub and I am now looking for some advice.

We have a daughter who is just turning 6 weeks old this week. I speak both German and English and my wife speaks only English and no German. We live in the US. I was planning on using OPOL in German, but in these first few weeks, it had become hard for my wife as she feels excluded from our conversations. She wants us to reconsider this strategy so she doesn’t feel left out and so her family also won’t feel left out when I’m speaking to our daughter.

While I understand her feelings, I am nervous that if we don’t do OPOL, our child’s exposure to German will be too limited and she will not learn as much as I am the only person who will be speaking German to her. I don’t have any German speaking family that lives here.

I’ve recently gone back to work and only see the baby for a little bit before it’s time for bed, so it seems like other strategies won’t work since my time with her is so limited and I feel like I need to be speaking German to her for every moment in those few hours.

I also see this as a way to bond our daughter and speaking English to her “doesn’t feel right”, so I only want to speak German to her but I know that my wife feels horrible that she doesn’t understand what going on. I’m trying to find a middle ground. My wife is willing to learn German but probably won’t be for a while as she is really struggling with postpartum depression right now.

Any advice is appreciated!

EDIT: I really appreciate all the responses so far! I just wanted to add that my wife said she wants our child to learn German and is on board with that. Her thing is that she wants us to find a way where she doesn’t always feels left out and that her family won’t always feel left out. That being said, I’ve been struggling to find some sort of compromise where she feels included and I am speaking German to our child.

So far the only things I could think of was that we would communicate to our daughter in English, together, if there is ever a serious conversation that needs to happen where both of us need to be talking to her as a unit. I’m totally fine with that but then also made it clear that I would also need to communicate that same conversation to our daughter in German so that way she has those language skills as well.

I also let my wife know that I would communicate in English in situations where we all need to hear the message, like some sort of safety concern or something like that

EDIT: The exclusion feeling comes from feeling we are are not parenting together since she can’t understand what I’m saying. She feels like we can’t bond over this new parenting experience in the moment with our child sind she doesn’t speak German. I think there is also a fear of when our child gets older, she will feel excluded from more in-depth conversations.

She has been in therapy for years and is still continuing to do so. We both do individual therapy and couples therapy.

 

[jakebakes]

@x902xxipher My friend's mom did this back in the eighties, and she's still kicking herself for being selfish and depriving her child of a second language.

She's not being excluded, this is her opportunity to learn!

Edit: this is your first kid and she's six weeks old? Everyone just relax and focus on getting sleep. You're in the midst of the meat grinder. No one thinks quite rationally at this time.

 

[jrbuckley]

@jakebakes This is what happened to my husband. His mom didn’t use Spanish with him growing up because his dad/her husband didn’t understand it.

My husband learned Spanish in school and now we use Spanish at home with our daughter. Now my father-in-law is studying Spanish to be able to communicate with her. I wish he had done that with his own child, but here we are.

 

[john919]

@jakebakes Amen!

 

[kingdomconsul]

@x902xxipher Since you mention PPD, I'd focus on that first. This feeling of being excluded might be amplified by it.

Secondly, I totally understand your wife - if she did not pick up the language at this point, she does not understand. One thing that could help now, is to repeat things in both languages.

Eventually, this is a huge help for your wife to pick up German! In our case, we deal with more than two languages, but we tend to fall back to English, as it is the easiest to communicate in. Now that we speak our native languages at home more often/ more consistently, I realized that we both improved our language skills.

 

[branannabanana]

@kingdomconsul My oldest is 2 and is fluent (as fluent as 2 year olds can be) in both languages. My husband has picked up enough Japanese in those two years to construct very basic sentences. I only translate the things that he needs to know so we can parent on the same page (like if I draw a boundary with kiddo, my husband needs to know what I said so he can help enforce said boundary).

My husband will never be fluent in Japanese without active studying, but he understands enough and will continue to learn more as time goes on.

ETA: with that said, postpartum, I couldn’t think in Japanese until baby was around 3 months old, so I didn’t even start speaking it to him until then. Granted, I am a SAHM so his entire daily exposure is in Japanese, but I think it’s okay to give some space to OP’s wife so she can deal with her PPD because he can still start OPOL in a few weeks if Mom is able to come around.

 

[seeker112]

@x902xxipher 1) This is the best chance for your wife to finally learn German too, alongside your daughter.

2) At 6 weeks what could you possibly be saying that she “feels left out of”? Your kid literally doesn’t understand or respond at all yet. This justification is weird.

3) We do OPOL, but spouse speaks English to our kid sometimes in group settings when others wouldn’t understand. You could try that, or say both.

4) She says she’s worried about family feeling left out? So she wants her family to understand but not yours? Do you have no relatives in Germany you want your daughter to speak with? Does she not want your daughter to understand anyone when you go visit? My in-laws are all terrible at English, so we were thrilled our kid could speak & understand everyone when we visited for the first time (age ~2).

Your wife is, to be frank, being a bit unreasonable and unfair to you, especially considering you have such limited time with your daughter. (That said, she just had a baby & is doing a lot of adjusting through exhaustion so don’t overdo any complaints). Is she working too or is she home w/the baby?

You live in the U.S. surrounded by English-only speakers - your daughter will learn English with no problems at all, and will speak to your wife’s relatives far more than yours as long as you live here.

You’re absolutely right that you’re the source for German, and to maximize that exposure now so you can establish not only your daughter’s ability but also your own habits of speaking German to her as your default. It’s going to be tough to maintain that as the sole source as your kid gets older.

 

[jakeranco]

@seeker112 while i agree with some of what you said, this is not a very empathetic approach. inclusion could be as simple as repeating commonly used phrases to help the wife pick them up. calling a 6 week pp woman unreasonable for not wanting to be fully involved in these new moments is not productive.

 

[seeker112]

@jakeranco I specifically addressed potential pp stress & related factors, literally in the next sentence.

OP needs to be empathetic. I don’t - I don’t live w/them. Her complaints are irrational and are unreasonable to OP, indicating some other concerns/causes besides language choice that they need to work through.

 

[chauncywilltheologian]

@x902xxipher It's not right for you not to be able to speak to your child in your native tongue - in the way that feels right to you and lets you express yourself fully to your own child.

Be careful about always translating/repeating yourself in two languages. I did it for a while, and not only is it mentally taxing at times but the child is less likely to learn your language - they can just tune it out because they know you will repeat yourself in English. It's ok for sometimes but not all the time. My little one's ability really soared when I mostly stopped.

I agree with others that it is probably an aspect of PPD that she feels this excluded. I suppose you might also print off some lists from the internet of baby-related vocabulary in German that she is welcome to learn. She is welcome to learn some basic German and honestly that is something that will benefit the relationship overall.

There is some weird rigidity in her thinking. Ok, her family speaks English, but how about yours - is your family going to feel excluded if the child doesn't speak any German and can't understand family gatherings with them? It sounds like emotionally she has forgotten that for the child, your family is their family too and your family will be much more important to your child than your family is to your wife (depending on the relationship, but this is what I'm gathering based on the details given).

I'm a little mad on both your and your daughter's behalf, although I understand this is coming from a place of emotion/depression/ignorance and lack of exposure to multilingual communities on your wife's end. But her answer is not the answer. Therapy is the answer. I'm sorry she's having a rough time and I hope you are all able to weather it well.

 

[emmalove]

@x902xxipher As the English only partner in our house, I have to say that my husband speaking his language really helped my language acquisition! She'll understand more over time. I like another commenter's idea to translate in real time so she doesn't feel excluded now though.

 

[erinandrew]

@x902xxipher You have a much bigger problem than Language acquisition of your child. You need to possibly table this issue in order to help your wife through her PPD. You want to be united with her to help her through this. I had PPD, it was a very terrifying experience and it can affect judgment. After she recovers you can discuss this again with her and she will hopefully be more reasonable.

 

[ispain]

@x902xxipher Why feel excluded? Excluded from a conversation between you and your 6 weeks old daughter? Bit strange to me. If she is interested good opportunity to learn it too. I say this taking into account that I speak multiple languages and I pass them on to my kids too. My partner does not speak all of those languages or at least not well. Same goes for him. I have never felt excluded neither did he. Besides I do believe a parent can have some private conversations with their kids as well.

 

[sadreamer71]

@x902xxipher Figure out the PPD/general hangups first. Get to the bottom of the feeling excluded issue and work to support your wife in other ways. Every parent has (should have) their bonding with their kid. E.g. my dad and I "spoke" baseball to each other, which "excluded" my mom.

More relevantly, my spouse didn't speak his language for the first 6 months to a year because he felt weird about it - you have time before the die is cast.

For context: We are OPOL with two languages (plus community). Neither spoke the other's language before, but we both now speak/understand enough to know most of what's going on. Kid is trilingual.

 

[eblemons103]

@x902xxipher As others have commented I don’t think this is really about you speaking German. Is your wife home alone all day with a 6 week old? That’s honestly more difficult then working. Then when another adult comes home, she may want to bond as a family.

The first 3 months are the hardest, after that there are many challenges to parenting but in many ways things get easier.

Some people have commented your wife is “selfish” but again I don’t think this is really about her wanting to deprive your child of learning a second language.

Yes, OPOL is best, but I would focus on everyone’s happiness now. If she has the energy and interest this will be a great time for her to pick up German!

Our situation isn’t similar bc I only speak English while my wife only speaks Japanese at home, I understand Japanese. But my wife works long hours and our children can understand Japanese with just late evenings and weekends hearing it, your children will learn German!

TLDR: focus on your wife’s happiness during this difficult time. If you are committed to teaching German you will be successful. I think OPOL isn’t the main issue here, it’s the feelings of loneliness when caring for a newborn.

 

[kairete]

@eblemons103 I second all of this! While it's nice to teach your kid a minority language, making sure everyone in the household is happy, not too stressed, and just generally OK is about three orders of magnitude more urgent than trying to optimize how your baby can learn German right now.

If your kid has a loving and supportive family, then it's not too hard to find effective ways to raise them in the minority language (whether OPOL or something else that words for you). What you absolutely don't want is for the kid to only ever experience German in a household where everyone is constantly stressed out, anxious, and unhappy.

Many people move to foreign countries at 2 years of age or even older and grow up speaking the local language like a native. Plus your baby is already being exposed to German from a native speaker at a critical moment. So doon't worry, there's plenty of time to sort out language strategies once the bigger issues at home get sorted out.

Good luck, and I hope you're all doing OK.

 

[polychordtetra]

@x902xxipher We’re in a very similar situation - live in the U.S., husband speaks German and English, I speak only English (though I know a little German). For the most part, husband speaks to our daughters in German only and I’ve picked up some phrases like “du brauchst eine neue Windel”. But now that our oldest is 2 and we’re having to set more and more boundaries, we make sure that if he tells her something important that I need to back him up on (like “one more puzzle then bed” or “no coloring right now”), he’ll say it in German then repeat it in English so we know we’re on the same page. Sometimes I understand the German but usually I don’t get it 100% and this helps make sure we are parenting together. When they’re just playing, talking, and being silly it’s all German and if I want to know what’s going on I’ll ask.

I do have similar concerns about my German not being good enough when the kids older and what conversations they will have in front of me in German if their dad isn’t around, but I’m hoping I can pick up more as they get older and maybe continue more formal German language classes to help. We also use English to speak to each other (me and my husband I mean) so it’s possible we’ll all use mostly English as a family with some German occasionally. We’ll have to see how that plays out as the girls get older.

 

[chels12]

@polychordtetra Regarding your kids speaking German to each other when they’re older to keep things from you, I wouldn’t worry about that too much! My brother and I were both sneaky sneaks, and it never even occurred to us to speak in Spanish in front of our mom if we were trying to keep something from her. And we did end up being a mostly English household due to the fact my mom only speaks very limited Spanish.

 

[x902xxipher]

@polychordtetra Thanks for this response, it’s super helpful. If I may ask, what does this look like when your family is together eat dinner for example and you’re all trying to talk with each other? Does your husband still only speak German to the kids or is that a time when English is spoken by everyone?

 

[barsomo]

@x902xxipher I have a feeling that this has everything to do with PPD. I hope she can get help soon because it’s not a good place to be.

Your wife is not excluded from your conversations because frankly you aren’t having conversations yet (and won’t be for quite a while), she just doesn’t understand what you are saying to your baby when speaking German. To make her feel more at ease for now, you can maybe translate if she really wants to know what it is that you’re saying and since you will not be taking to your daughter about philosophy or metaphysics (but rather routine things that tend to repeat daily), your wife will slowly start to learn as well.

I have two daughters (4,5y and 1y) and me and my husband have been speaking our languages to them since they were born (Finnish and Portuguese). We live in French speaking Canada. We didn’t know each others languages at all when we started, but after 4,5 years of hearing Portuguese every day I can understand it and speak it like an advanced beginner. My husband is not as advanced with Finnish (because it’s a much harder language) but he can understand almost everything and speak a bit of basic Finnish.

We never felt uncomfortable not knowing exactly what the other person was saying (neither do our families), because our personal relationship with our children is nobody else’s business. We also never cared if someone else felt uncomfortable with us speaking our languages to our kids. Unfortunately this is a common reason why people don’t speak their own language to their children: outside pressure and wanting to please other people.

I’m sure that once your wife feels better she can see what an opportunity this is for your child (and for her). Keep doing what you are doing and maybe find a middle ground for now (translating) but don’t stop speaking German. Your gut feeling right and you’re doing a great job